New Programs Available: “Roblox China” Licensed to Operate

Read this:

YOUR UGC ON THE CHINA GAME
2.1 Option to distribute Your China UGC on the China Game. In addition to making your UGC available to other users as Dev Services on the Platform, you may be given the opportunity to make your UGC available to players (" China Players “) of the version of the Platform and Services published and operated in the PRC (” China Game ") by Shenzhen Tencent Computer Systems Co., Ltd (the " China Publisher “). Publishing your UGC on the China Game will be completely at your option, and you have no obligation to do so. UGC that you choose to make available to China Players (” Your China UGC ") will be subject to review in accordance with this Section 2.1. To the extent made available in the China Game, Your China UGC will be deemed published by the China Publisher. If a China Player purchases Your China UGC, you may be eligible to earn Robux from Roblox Corporation in accordance with Section 2.9, below. However, the purchase of Your China UGC by a China Player will not constitute the provision of Dev Services or establish any other form of contractual relationship between you and that China Player. Rather, Your China UGC will be sub-licensed to the China Player by the China Publisher. Sections 5B and 6B(3) shall not apply to Your China UGC to the extent that they are inconsistent with Sections 2.2 and 2.9.

The last sentence is important. If you choose to publish your UGC to China (this would be talking about us, not citizens of PRC), then 6B(3) (the terms relating to your intellectual property rights outside of China) no longer apply, and instead Section 2.2 (the terms relating to IP of China UGC) apply.

If you had read through the TOS thoroughly, you would’ve spotted this. Please stop accusing people of making rash, emotionally driven claims when it is clear you aren’t doing your due diligence in researching the TOS.

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As far as I understand, it is illegal to publish games in China if you are not a Chinese citizen / national company. A middle-man that can legally publish content in China would help you publish your game, which is why you cannot legally own the rights for your content in China, hence the TOS difference. So this is a hard legal requirement for even being able to publish your content in China.

Obviously it has no consequence for your IP rights outside of China, and obviously if Luobu wants to maintain a good relationship with non-China developers they would not be making derivative content of your game.

A little bit more nuance in interpretation might be appropriate here. They’re not asking for more than they need. This is just the way game publishing works in China.

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It’s cool to see Roblox venturing into different markets around the world, but China simply has too many restrictions.

I believe it would be easier, and maybe even more profitable in the long run, to go after the markets in Japan and Germany.

Combined the gaming industry of Japan and Germany is estimated to be worth half as much as China, but has way fewer restrictions. Plus, people might feel safer.

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Ok. The thread is in slow mode so I can’t actually edit my post but I would have redacted some parts. My dispute was a misread of the Appendix A omission, which covers anyone whose services are located in the country, rather than citizen of it.

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Even if I was eligible, I wouldn’t apply, simply because I don’t like Tencent and I would never want to make a game which runs with its’ support.

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Just weighing in here:

As Roblox grows in China from the few of us who did end up making a game that makes the CCP happy, more and more of us will see we’re missing out on a market 4x larger than the US and dive in as well, lest some other developer take the money with their own game we could’ve made if we just crafted a game for the CCP. Apparently IP theft is getting better in China. According to some studies, a developing country steals a lot of inbound IP until it becomes self-sustaining around $15k to $25k per capita. In the past this was Japan, South Korea, etc. China is just the biggest deal because it has the largest population.

THE BRIGHT SIDE
You know what all of this means? That the people of the world are moving up in quality of life. An Indian channel becomes the largest YouTube channel? Hell yeah! That’s a billion Indian people having a high enough quality of life to be able to afford internet and phones or laptops. China grows incredibly fast in economic scale? Hell yeah! That means over a billion Chinese people can afford awesome technologies.

Let’s not forget however that global corporations care not for you or your country. US companies, as we’ve been shown, will easily abandon giant factories in small towns and leave thousands of Americans without income if it means they can get more money or save money in another country. The top company owners care not for any individual worker or “developer” in the US. It’s up to our governments to bring on deals or restrictions which invite companies to come and stay.

The hope with China is that as its citizens gradually realize how badly they’ve been given the shaft in the past and more freedom of speech will come their way. It will take time however, because currently they’re mostly economically ascending and not much political descent happens during economic upswings. There’s also the matter of the ‘old guard’ of the CCP needing a few years to age out and kick the bucket. There are 7+ billion people in the world and only a few million of them are CCP. The CCP has all the power in China and it will take a few economic downturns and a whole lot of protesting to change things. Perhaps by bringing fun games we’ve made ourselves to the people of China we can be a part of that change.

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This seems to me as pure conjecture. Why would they explicitly grant themselves permission to make derivative video games off of your work, if they didn’t plan to use it in some capacity? Yes, it would be bad for Tencent’s relation if they were to create derivative works off of your IP, but do you think that will stop them? Just look at the history of Western works being stolen and shamelessly duplicated within the PRC, including video games. Also, you need to realize that we aren’t talking about the license that Luobu has to your UGC, but the license that the China Publisher (Tencent) has by extension of this.

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If you don’t mind me asking…where are you finding Appendix A?

Edit: Oops I found it sorry :man_facepalming:

Have some game started moving over to China?

I found what appears to be a Chinese version of Epic Minigames

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While I appreciate your optimistic outlook and can only hope that it will become true, I have strong reasons to believe that participating in this program will not be “Westernizing” China, but rather aiding and strengthening their control of their own citizenship.

The first point you should understand is that this is a direct partnership with Tencent; in the Chinese economic system, while you may be under the impression that Chinese companies operate independently, the reality is that ALL of them must answer to the CCP, and if they do not, they would be barred from operating in the country altogether. It sounds dramatic, but I strongly believe when you say X partners with Tencent, it is as good as saying X partners with the CCP.

The second point you should realize is that the many, sometimes ridiculous, restrictions placed on China UGC, such as the no mention of the existence of religion part, is direct orders from the CCP to maintain control over their citizens. We aren’t helping break the CCP control over their population, we are only strengthening it by abiding by their demands and self-censoring our works.

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I doubt the situation will change. They said the same about the Soviet Union, but at the end of the day, even the new generation will take their lucrative posts as undemocratic and authoritarian leaders of China - regardless of their previous opinions.

The Soviet Union existed for more than 70 years, China is the same - but they have some really scary technology to control their population and public opinions (The Soviet’s had control even without the technology).

What you described is a dream, that hopefully becomes true - but it undoubtetly won’t.

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When Deng Xiaoping started market reforms, the rest of the world hoped that through market liberalization would cause the Chinese people to start demanding freedoms. However, as we see today China did not become “free” as we had hoped from those market reforms. How free a country’s market is not tied to how free it’s people are.

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The international audience for Roblox is seeing significant growth, which is great. And yeah, it would be super duper epic if we had more Japanese players. Minecraft is HUGE in Japan, so it wouldn’t be much of a stretch to dream of a future where Roblox is HUGE in Japan.

Also would be pretty funny to see Japanese players and American players interacting – if you didn’t know, Japan has what is essentially their version of weeaboos, people who are in love with Western culture, cowboys, pizza, et cetera. What a funny conversation to be had between a westaboo and a weeaboo!

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Unfortunately, yeah. But in all honesty, I wouldn’t kid myself. Roblox is a corporation out to make money. Chances are it never had morals to begin with. As someone who’s been on here for about 7 years now, I can safely say I’ve never seen “moral” decisions made outside of the donations to the hurricane survivors a few years back. Everything else, to me, seems biased or dishonest, or has some sort of alt motive.

We just have to remember Roblox will do whatever it can to profit, because that’s the point of the platform. Prepare for the worst, hope for the best.

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I hope this time my post doesn’t get deleted.

I think you could compare Roblox’s teaming up with Tencent, who are controlled by the CCP, like working with the Italian mafia to open a toy store. To uninformed people, it sounds like a good idea - what could be wrong with giving kids a place to play and have fun?

I also find that educated Chinese people (especially from Hong Kong Taiwan) most oppose western companies doing business with the CCP to “open up to a larger market” because they have personal negative experiences with the CCP.

It’s like Roblox is teaming up with your abusive uncle who starved you, took away your freedom, and killed all your aunts and cousins.

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The concern is not necessarily “greed” for me, its just tencent is known for stealing IP. Looking at their past, if roblox doesn’t change we’ll be forced to comply with outrageous Chinese censorship, and our IP will also be owned by tencent. Its not about roblox being “The bad guy”

I do agree, the Chinese market seems great, and it’s wonderful to give others the opportunity to play a game you made. But is it really worth it if you’re constantly being censored, following strict and unusual guidelines? Not to mention the atrocious acts the Chinese government does, and knowing they can blackmail you even if it’s outside of Chinese related business. They’ve done it before and there’s no reason why they’d do it now.

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Of course expanding is technically greedy, in this case. Roblox is a corporation out to make money, they literally make their income off of us, the playerbase.

Expanding into countries is going to bring in more players, more developers, and more income. Even if it’s a good thing to have a bigger playerbase, Roblox is actively making money off of it all. It’s not done out of the “goodness of their hearts”. That simply isn’t the way the world works.

I do criticize the push as a whole, but I’m more lenient because most countries aren’t ruled by tyranny. I believe that the best way to stop China’s government is to stop them from being a part of the outer world and remove the power and influence they have, so giving into them like this isn’t really a smart idea when you consider how much they’re already trying to control.

Sure, you can argue that that’s just my viewpoint, and it is, but it doesn’t change the fact that Roblox is simply allowing a government such as China’s the ability to heavily influence the program.

China can easily influence Roblox as a whole, and not in the far future either. China’s population is so vast that by the time Roblox hits it big there (which, let’s face it, it can and will), the Chinese government can simply attempt to oppress Roblox into complying with more terms and changes at threat of losing their massive market share, which, could end up impacting more than just the Chinese market on Roblox.

Plus, if you need any more reason to think it’s out of greed, look at China as a whole. As a country, they’re filthy rich and their population is astronomically high. I doubt Roblox is pushing so hard to get into China simply because they want Chinese people to “be able to enjoy the platform”.

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I did write a whole message of my opinion on this but I’ve opted to not post it in the fear of it being deemed off-topic or any other reason.
But what I would say is it is deeply concerning. This expansion and partnership with Tencent who is under the control of the CCP is essentially allowing the CCP to access ROBLOX and possibly corrupt it. China has the worst human rights record and a very bad reputation for stealing IP, and this is something as a Dev I’m not comfortable with. Personally, I will not be censoring my content to conform to CCP laws or regulations.

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It’s not greed, roblox hasn’t even made a profit before read roblox’s sec registration statement they are doing this to survive and expand as a company

That is a total misrepresentation of Roblox’s situation. A company that is growing as fast as Roblox should not be concerned about making a profit, instead they should be focusing all of that money into expanding their staff, their platform’s capabilities and reach, etc. If David Baszucki woke up one day and wanted to start making a profit on Roblox, he could, easily. Making a profit on a company like this just means you are stifling your own growth and future profit and value.

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