SCRIPTERS - Stop undervaluing your work!


#83

No, it means more work from everyone. This is an extremely biased post.


#84

In a way I get what SteadyOn is trying to bring up here. While builders have to build, gui designers have to design and etc, scripters have to work with all of it. There’s no reason to make a GUI if it does nothing. Most of the time, builds are scripted. Mostly everything developed outside of the scripting field has to be scripted in order to achieve the end goal, with the exception of additional builds and whatnot.


#85

I’m a builder, graphics, and interface designer. I’ve been developing on this platform for 10+ years. I’ve worked with countless developers and have endless stories I can tell.

I do agree particularly with what’s being said here on this thread. But I feel this is the common issue why a lot of projects fall flat to the ground. There are too many developers that I’ve seen over the years who focus too much on the money aspect, and not so much the quality of the game. They’re constantly striving on their own to make a game when it takes a team to build a quality project. (Sure) It’s possible you can script and build, and put everything together yourself. But the beauty of development is cooperating with another person who you can call ‘partner’ or ‘friend’ and share ideas and work on something you both love and enjoy making.

Most successful companies didn’t start with the idea of “I’m doing this to make this percentage, or this specific wage” Success comes to those who show love and passion in the work they do. I’ve seen developers who thrown away projects that could’ve amounted to millions, just because one of the developers didn’t get a specific percentage they wanted (65%) So greed ended up amounting to nothing in the end. So wouldn’t it be better to be fair and come to a fair agreement rather than selfishness? That’s why so many projects crumble.

I mean look at the success of Jailbreak, that game was developed by two talented developers who teamed up to make one of the biggest games on Roblox. I’m sure when they first started the game, they didn’t focus on; “I want this percentage, I want to be paid x amount” No. They focused on creating a simple, but effective game as a team. I’m sure it wasn’t even a thought in mind that it would become the biggest game on Roblox. And although I can’t speak on what percentage they may be splitting. I’d imagine the pay is split fairly between the two. As both put in a lot of effort.

It wouldn’t be Jailbreak without the build, and it wouldn’t be Jailbreak without the code. It would just be another prison game.

Ultimately I just want to see more developers come together, put greed aside and stop focusing so much on the pay, focus on the quality of work you produce, focus on making a fun game. Although keep marketing and everything in mind of course, but don’t let it uproot your hard work because you can’t get exactly what you want.

Put Ego aside - Fair is always the way to go


#86

Im with @SHADOWTHEHEDGEHOGXX on this one, I’m a builder myself and if you look at it without a good build, whats the use of some code? People these days always look at how much they are getting paid before the build, probably why we are stuck with such lousy games on the front page (Cough cough simulator games cough cough)

For me myself, I don’t care for the amount I get paid for my work - I usually end up saying that I don’t even want a cut, and that’s because I enjoy building! Yea , it takes up some of my time, but for me , it’s like spending hours playing “fortnite” or watching my favourite TV show, and you don’t get paid for doing those.

All in all, I feel as though between a coder and a builder that they should get the project done, THEN adjust the pay outs accordingly on how much effort they put in. Some scripters will always say that they will do the most work and that they should earn up to 65%, but wheres the proof of that before you even start to develop a game?


#87

I feel like a lot of people take forgranted the opportunity we’re given. How many people do you know have the ability to work from the comfort of their home doing what they love to do and get paid big money for it ?

People make it out to be this big deal, like it’s so challenging so hard on their life to sit in their chair and code or build or whatever development wise.

Just be glad you don’t have to work in a factory, or be stressed at a job you hate. Why are people arguing and complaining about something they love doing? It’s beyond me.

I can go deep into this but I’ll leave it at that.


#88

This thread is about getting paid as a Scripter not that being a dev on Roblox is better than working in a factory…


#89

That was a comparison, he is still on topic by talking about payment of coders by saying that he doesn’t understand why they care so much and that they can still sit comfortably at home while coding.


#90

Then he is missing the point of this thread. Why should people be happy with their pay if it could be higher for the amount of work they put it.


#91

Bless up :pray:. This is the type of attitude I strive to hear from developers.


#92

I can’t speak for any of the experiences you’ve had with programmers wanting too much money, and I don’t know how much you pay them, but in general perspective plays a huge role. I.e. if I estimated that I’d be doing 65% of the work in a project, and someone offered me 25%, I’d decline the offer not because I wasn’t making enough money, but because the other developer was trying to shortchange me for their own benefit, and that I could more than likely expect a hostile / manipulative attitude from them in the future.


#93

Oh I totally 100% agree with you there. If the programmer is doing the majority of the work (say building, interface, and more) then of course they deserve 65% of the cut for they deserve it considering they’re doing the majority of the work. But as far as saying; “Building Isn’t as hard as scripting” - “Scripting is the only important thing in a game” Is just flat out wrong to say.

With previous people I worked with, I did the majority of the work, I lead teams giving game ideas, and keeping the overall team organized, I built massive map structures, detailed user interface, and built all of the assets that go with the game. All I require from the developers I work with, is to script and make the features I want to work, I demand nothing more. Although scripting is what puts a game together, and it takes a lot of brains to script and do it efficiently.

But just like scripting, It took me 10 years to get to where I’m at now. I went through constant restructuring over the years to fully perfect what I do. And I’m still always learning on how to improve my skills when it comes to building, making user interface, and more. You were the first one to teach me how to make GUIs way back in 2011-2012, It was something I was always afraid to learn and it took me years of learning on how to efficiently organize and setup advance GUI structures. But that’s development in general, we should always be better than what we were a year ago. Constantly improving. I mean look at how Roblox grew and continues to improve its development platform. It’s the reason why I love developing on this platform so much.

I think the problem is there’s a lot of immaturity yet on this platform (as Roblox is more directed towards kids) but once more people mature on the platform I do believe you’ll see more serious teams form, and you’ll see a drastic change in the quality of Roblox games.

I await that day.


#94

I agree with you but in my opinion the programmer better be the creative director and the projects sole investor funding all advertisement and development costs for anything above 50%. You all must seriously underestimate roblox tax. Try getting someone to invest on your game where they have to profit 180-190% just to get a return on their investment… if they invest it wont be very much.


#95

I wish Roblox would consider looking into the 30% tax especially for large development groups. Cause it’s already rough enough splitting it two ways, much less 4-6 different ways (as some teams do) But obviously there’s too many loop holes to cover which makes it difficult for them.

As for leading a project, It really comes down to who has the brains for a successful game? Just because you can program doesn’t mean you have the brains behind what is going to be successful on this platform. Some programmers need guidance on what to code, and how to code it.

I for one lead a majority of the projects, and all of the programmers I worked with commended me for giving good guidance / ideas on how said feature should function.


#96

The 30% tax almost makes investing in games a gamble. I agree with your second point as well- just because someone can program doesn’t mean they know what they need to program to be successful.


#97

And that’s one thing I do consider every developer to look deeply into. What kind of project are you making? Does the overall idea sound promising? Is your time going to be worthwhile? Cause sure you can get a 65% cut on a game, but what if that game barely averages R$1,000 a day? Then you spent months of time on a project that really wasn’t worth your while. (a gamble) But typically if Heart is poured out into a project, it’s bound to become successful. I’ve seen the most simple of games become giants in terms of their player base (and overall success)

So it really does take knowledge of what works on this platform, studying the top games, what makes the top games succeed, and how you can innovate to improve on what currently works on Roblox. Cause there are some genres I see people attempting, and in my head, I’m like; “Don’t go down that path it’s not worth it…”

You really need to know the audience on Roblox and look into what most players enjoy on this platform. That’s something I study all the time.


#98

Finally someone gets it - You don’t know how much I’ve heard this.

You are comparing 2 completely different things. One thing creates the game, and the other brings it to life, yin and yang, black and white ect ect.

So saying that a game cannot function without a coder is only half right, you underestimate the value of a builder, not only do you build, but we have to plan ahead ,deal with the strife of small errors just as coders would. Yea a game wouldn’t function As Well as it would without a scripter, but the game would still function.

To me, I feel like it comes down to the amount of effort each party puts into the build, not the process in which they do it. saying coders should earn more because they do so much more than builders is just so wrong to me.

Most coders only join developer groups because they can’t build to the extent that one of their co-members can, which is really saying something.


#99

For me the issue I have with it is if I do more work why should I receive less than someone who does less work? I do love the fact that I’m able to make games on this platform from home, I just have this (likely quite unhealthy) innate urge to make sure it’s completely fair.


#100

If you’re doing the majority of the work, then fairly you deserve a higher percentage.

But if you decide to partner/team up with a friend or whatever and you both do your fair share of work. It should come down to a 50% split. All I’m saying is it’s unfair to say; “Builders deserve less” “Programmers Deserve more”

Coding may be tedious, and there’s no denying that it takes brains to do it but building can be just as tedious. and also takes brains to visualize, and keep in mind all the key factors such as having to visualize an entire map structure, and build it around what’s going to be coded for the game.

Here’s just a list of things I constantly have to keep in mind:

  • Design & Map Structure Starting the design is always the hardest part for any builder. It takes a ton of visualizing and a ton of planning to really put together a good design. It’s not just throwing a bunch of parts together and calling it a day (although some people do that). It takes making concepts, planning, and a lot of sitting in your head trying to visualize how the end picture should look. It’s the point where many developers struggle with, hence it’s easier to just copy a concept online or build an existing game. (but even that takes work and planning). Bad map design can kill a game, just like bad code can kill a game. I have to think 10 steps ahead and build my environment around the future code that’s going to exist in the game.

  • Performance Just like coding, builders also have to keep in mind performance and the efficiency of the environment. I’m always finding ways to lower the part count and the overall memory usage. Such as; Is it better to use parts to make a detailed window frame? Or should I use a single (efficient) texture that’s one part? I’m always looking for ways that I can keep a good looking environment, but an extremely low part count/memory count. It took me years of developing on Roblox, to learn how to make efficient yet beautiful environments. I’ve seen developers make the mistake of making these elaborate environments that look amazing, but playability wise it’s not going to reach a large audience. I’m building my game not to just run on my PC, but low-end PCs and Mobile devices. I start to stress when I see the memory count go up, or when the part count goes too high. So I’ll constantly have to look around (where can I cut details?) It’s all about keeping details well spread so the overall game looks well.

  • Constantly Visualizing/staying inspired One of the hardest parts I deal with when building large environments, is having to constantly visualize a new building structure, so the map is not filled with spammed copy and pasted buildings. I want every area on the map to look uniquely different. Some days it’s harder than others, cause every developer struggles with Visual Block, where ideas don’t come so easy. Resulting in days where your stuck floating around a baseplate for hours not doing anything. You can’t force ideas to come to you, when it’s there it’s there when it’s not, it’s not. When you’re not inspired, that’s when most builders have to run to concepts, to get re-inspired, just to shed some light to open their mind to new ideas. But sometimes concepts won’t help in certain situations, so it can be a battle sometimes to stay visualizing and inspired.

There are obviously a ton of fine details I have to think about all the time, but I won’t get too into it here on this thread. Overall I get the point of what you are trying to say, but I just want to at least shed some light for the people out there who don’t respect builders. I don’t feel like builders get the respect they deserve. There’s only a handful of people I can say: “That’s a quality builder” and when I say quality I don’t mean ‘intensively detailed’. I mean well thought out builders who visualize and plan all of the key factors I talked about. They’re a rare jewel just like there are rare jewels with people who program.

The overall point is, development all take uniquely its own skill. I spent 10 years building, and making User Interface, while others may have spent 10 years with programming, or whatever. Everyone has something they specialize in. For you it may be programming, although you can probably do a mixture of everything, you may not meet the same quality standards as someone who spent years specializing in their practice. Like I can do GFX art, but I’ll never top some of the great artists out there, I consider myself average at GFX, but that’s because It’s not something I continually practice.

I think all the practices of development should always be appreciated.


#101

The scripter should definitely be paid the most on the developer team, however, I believe every single piece matters - in order to bring a game together. :smiley:

And, to the percentages - it depends on what you’re working on. It depends how much time, effort, and work - the scripter puts into the project. For example, if you’re just making a simple roleplay game - the scripter would be fairly balanced out along with the builders, and other workers - due to the simplicity of the project, and how much less work that a scripter has to do. An example of a game where the scripter would be payed a higher amount would be an FPS game.

Though I think your percentages are questionable, I very much support that the scripter should obtain the most pay within a project! I’ve been in many situations where I have seen the scripter get payed a an unfairly small amount. Most specifically, I’ve seen scripters get payed amounts instead of percents… I don’t agree upon that.


#102

For any large development project, having the motive that a game would be successful dependent on the standards of pay towards developers usually leads to a flat-line in development. But arguably this has been the medium for developers to ensure that their investment of time in the development project will be carried forward into something successful. A struggle isn’t it?

It is fundamental to understand that in order to collaborate effectively there must be coherence between the team. Something which really frustrates me as a developer is that the entire development community is being segregated into what is known as ‘scripters’ and ‘builders’. Nonetheless you are developers and the glue to what keeps the game running regardless of what you do.

Any good developer is capable of both programming and building. Arbitrarily if you wanted to include pay: you should pay by the amount of work done which takes up the proportion of the game based on your own moral judgment, basically do not do a one-off payout at the start in this case- because again it doesn’t determine a good characteristic for the morality of the development project.

You do not define someone’s work on a project based on numeric and fixed values that’s just wrong, I don’t really agree upon the initial motive of this post. As @SHADOWTHEHEDGEHOGXX stated, it’s all about fairness in terms of these circumstances.