Creator Documentation: Subscription Design

[nvthane (Vijetnamski)]

Guarantee you, many low quality simulator games are going to use this model, it will be a really effective tactic (as the reasons you stated), and it’s concerning because

1. Kids can take parents’ cards whether by credit or debit when they realized it can be purchased by official currency only (Do not say they don’t know how to use cards, if you can sign up for an email then you know well, or using auto-fill)
2. Roblox may almost count any kind of transactions taken in the game as a measure of “success” which will be put on the discovery page.

This leads more ethical concerns and upset Roblox developers with already bad enough discovery system. I have no problems with subscription, but I will stay pessimistic until they add Robux-based subscription in which subscriptions will be canceled at insufficient amount of Robux and they will not count majority of auto-recurring subscriptions as the “success”.

[DanTDM_Rocks999 (Dan)]

For anyone wondering, Robux-based subscriptions are entirely possible with developer products, similar to how games “ban” players with datastores and using the :Kick API.

I’m surprised there isn’t a popular package already out there for this, but all you need is to log the date with a DataStore when a user purchases a dev product and give them their rewards for a certain duration.

Currency subscriptions are a bonus that Roblox have added, and I see no reason to complain on a feature that is just there for those that want it.

[Reinitialized]

I was excited when I saw this post, but immediately became disappointed when I learned users are going to be charged in real-world currency over Robux

I get the idea, but I feel this is going to be a major barrier for onboarding new subscribers if they have to whip out a Credit/Debit Card over using their existing Robux they already bought. Really hope this gets notated internally and Robux is added alongside (and prioritized over) real-world currency.

[FloofyNezzled]

@C_Corpze

Slowly moving towards a dystopia where you don’t own anything you buy and where everything is temporary.

We’re already here. Anything you buy that isn’t physical media is temporary. Y’know that steam game you “bought”? It can be gone the moment you get banned from Steam, or the moment Steam shuts down. Most everything you think you’re purchasing is essentially just a receipt proving you have access to a service or product. We moved to that reality the second most of us started going digital. It’s not just a matter of being a subscription, although that definitely exasperates the issue.

[OppaStoppaStomppa]

@FloofyNezzled

We moved to that reality the second most of us started going digital.

This is a sloppy analogy. If you want to go far back to when physical media was still popular you have to consider that if you broke whatever storage device your content is on (CD, SD, etc), you effectively lost access to said media.

I don’t see where the hatred for subscriptions comes from — nobody is being forced to start integrating subscriptions to their monetization models.

[FloofyNezzled]

@OppaStoppaStomppa

If you want to go far back to when physical media was still popular you have to consider that if you broke whatever storage device your content is on (CD, SD, etc), you effectively lost access to said media

That’s user error - you still own the media. Nobody disputes the ownership of something tangible.

@OppaStoppaStomppa

I don’t see where the hatred for subscriptions comes from — nobody is being forced to start integrating subscriptions to their monetization models.

But you are forced to conform to other games’ employed of subscription models. It’s formatted in a predatory way with no precedent that can benefit Roblox and developers while harming players.

[ArinaBuilder (Rubidium)]

I think subscribtions its will be good thing for developers. (i like this animation :3)

[xChris_vC (Chris)]

Just like everyone else, I won’t consider implementing this until Robux prices are supported. You did it with private servers, so subscriptions isn’t much of a problem either.

For now, custom implementations will stay (developer products).

[kni0002]

I like the idea of subscriptions but, Roblox please.
I don’t want to alienate my player base by forcing them to pay with real world currency.

Maybe less reliable because the user has to keep their robux topped up every month but I think id be fine with that. Plus I can use the Robux I get from development to pay for subscriptions in my favorited games.

[SwitchedDreams]

Great, more subscriptions.

It’s not like I already have 10 other subscription services to pay per month…

[TimeFrenzied (of Xyaery)]

@jaysonp1pro

Who is going to be invested enough in a single roblox game that they will pay a reoccurring subscription for items in it?

A ton of people. There’s a game called Deepwoken that’s pretty engaging, and I know people who have spent hundreds on it even though they shouldnt have tbh.

[pint_9]

so subscription is a gamepass but monthly?

[ThatOneUnoriginal (Unoriginal)]

@FloofyNezzled

We’re already here. Anything you buy that isn’t physical media is temporary. Y’know that steam game you “bought”? It can be gone the moment you get banned from Steam, or the moment Steam shuts down.

A lot of the points you make against digital media can also be modified slightly to be used against physical media. Yes, you own the physical disk and whatever physical items came with the disk (game box, manuals, cover art, etc…) but nowadays and especially with the large publishers, hidden within those Terms of Service (that you likely ignored) there are sections which basically state that the publisher is giving you a LICENCE to be able to play the game itself, and that they can so choose to revoke it whenever they see fit (that’s how a game publisher can ban you from a game without you being able to sue them or whatnot.)

For example, here is Activisions Terms of Use.

14. TERMINATION.
The license granted under this Agreement is effective until terminated by you or Activision. Upon termination of the license, You shall cease all use of the Product, and destroy all copies, full or partial, of the Product.
A. FOR RESIDENTS OUTSIDE THE EUROPEAN UNION AND THE UNITED KINGDOM:
Your rights under this Agreement will terminate automatically without notice from Activision if you fail to comply with any term(s) of this Agreement or applicable Third Party Terms.

Activision reserves the right to terminate this Agreement without cause on immediate written notice.

Nothing herein limits Activision’s rights to suspend, terminate or delete any account.

ACTIVISION MAY SUSPEND, TERMINATE, MODIFY, OR DELETE ANY ACCOUNT AT ANY TIME FOR ANY REASON OR FOR NO REASON, WITH OR WITHOUT NOTICE TO YOU, TO THE FULLEST EXTENT PERMITTED BY APPLICABLE LAW. For purposes of explanation and not limitation, many account suspensions, terminations and/or deletions may be the result of violations of this Agreement.

B. FOR RESIDENTS IN THE EUROPEAN UNION AND UNITED KINGDOM:

1. ACTIVISION MAY TERMINATE THE LICENSE GRANTED TO YOU UNDER THIS AGREEMENT AND/OR SUSPEND, MODIFY, OR DELETE YOUR ACCOUNT AT ANY TIME WITHOUT GIVING YOU ANY PRIOR NOTICE IF YOU SERIOUSLY VIOLATE THIS AGREEMENT. SERIOUS VIOLATIONS ARE VIOLATIONS OF IMPORTANT PROVISIONS WHICH INCLUDE SECTIONS 3(C)(i)-(iv) AND 8(E) OF THIS AGREEMENT OR REPEATED VIOLATIONS OF OTHER PROVISIONS OF THIS AGREEMENT (INCLUDING FURTHER NON-COMPLIANCE WHERE YOU ALREADY HAVE RECEIVED A PRIOR WARNING).
(…)
1. ACTIVISION MAY TERMINATE THE LICENSE GRANTED TO YOU UNDER THIS AGREEMENT AND/OR SUSPEND, MODIFY, OR DELETE YOUR ACCOUNT IF IT HAS ANOTHER VALID REASON TO DO SO (FOR EXAMPLE, CEASING AN ONLINE SERVICE FOR ECONOMIC REASONS DUE TO A LIMITED NUMBER OF USERS CONTINUING TO MAKE USE OF THE SERVICE OVER TIME) OR WITHOUT REASON BY GIVING YOU REASONABLE PRIOR NOTICE.

2. IF ACTIVISION TERMINATES THE LICENSE GRANTED TO YOU UNDER THIS AGREEMENT AND/OR SUSPENDS OR DELETES YOUR ACCOUNT, THIS MEANS THATYOUR ACCESS AND RIGHT TO USE THE PRODUCT(S) AND SERVICE PROVIDED CONTENT WILL BE REVOKED.
(…)

In reality, we lost the right to “own anything you buy” once DRM started popping up and Terms of Services were re-written to add these sections. Physical or not, you no longer own the media on the disk, just the disk, that’s all.

@FloofyNezzled

That’s user error - you still own the media. Nobody disputes the ownership of something tangible.

Yes, somebody does, the law.

[FloofyNezzled]

You’re talking about accounts. Those are digital. You still own the game itself.

@ThatOneUnoriginal

Yes, somebody does, the law.

Well by that logic, we own absolutely nothing. The law is always in play, but it shouldn’t be a factor for owning something or not.

[ThatOneUnoriginal (Unoriginal)]

@FloofyNezzled

but it shouldn’t be a factor for owning something or not.

But it is, regardless if you like it or not. The whole ownership argument is moot nowadays due to DRM. Only way you can skirt around that is if the platform or publisher hasn’t created some ToS which allows them to revoke access (or your “licence”) to the media. Apart from that, as I said in my first reply, you dont own the media on the disk.

[FloofyNezzled]

@ThatOneUnoriginal

But it is, regardless if you like it or not.

My point is, people don’t say that they don’t own their house or car because they can technically be taken by the government at any point. It’s just not realistic.

@ThatOneUnoriginal

The whole ownership argument is moot nowadays due to DRM. Only way you can skirt around that is if the platform or publisher hasn’t created some ToS which allows them to revoke access (or your “licence”) to the media. Apart from that, as I said in my first reply, you dont own the media on the disk.

Totally valid, but I’m talking about the actual contents of the disk. You can always technically launch the game and have the files available to you. With any online game, you can have your access revoked to download the title through their services. That doesn’t happen with physical media. You seem to be debating something that I wasn’t even talking about.

[ThatOneUnoriginal (Unoriginal)]

@FloofyNezzled

With any online game, you can have your access revoked to download the title through their services. That doesn’t happen with physical media. You seem to be debating something that I wasn’t even talking about.

While its a practice usually done in multiplayer games (since there’s more reason to have a moderation system), its something that can apply to any media. The publisher can (in theory) block your access to the media (partly or fully (ex: Xbox Console Ban restricts console to offline/local features only.) Only preventative measure would be to stay offline forever. The point I’m trying to say is in many ways physical media ownership wise is no better then digital media.

[FloofyNezzled]

@ThatOneUnoriginal

The point I’m trying to say is in many ways physical media ownership wise is no better then digital media.

I heavily agree, I never said I didn’t. My original point was just trying to support the other person talking about subscription services. I still believe there is a difference between being revoked access to online services and being revoked access to even downloading the game itself.

[DevChampz]

I think this is a great new feature for us developers! I have tons of ideas of what I can do with this already.

Some people are saying this is a negative thing as games can become more P2W and can cause some huge issues.

But in my opinion, I think that they’re just looking at the negatives of it, the positives bear many great opportunities for developers. I hope people use this for good

Once again, well done Roblox!