@Bitdancer sorry for the ping, but is it okay if you could respond to my questions? Thank you!
PSA, do NOT run the
roblox-player: link in the original post, I have been unable to join any roblox games since using it and reinstalling has not fixed it.
To answer your second question, they already do.
Edit: On top of that, Roblox Player specifically detects wine and writes it to its log.
Thank you, I’m taking a guess that this will be temporary, I doubt this will be a forever thing.
How is this going to affect any of us doing HackerOne white-hat penetration testing on the client? If I’m trying to find a vulnerable facet of the software to report to Roblox through their certified HackerOne page, I may be risking my HWID being blocked and my account being banned.
This will only scare off the white-hat guys who are trying to do good. I’m sure the bad actors have a lot less fear for consequence than those of us looking for vulns to submit to Roblox’s HackerOne page.
I think Byfron should take a more preventative approach rather than a punitive one. Punishments don’t hit bad actors as hard as they hit those who never intended to do wrong. Bad actors anticipate bans and set up precautions such that they can be evaded (using alternate accounts, using VMs, HWID spoofing, and even writing kernel code to bypass the Byfron anticheat’s detection altogether).
All Byfron will do will stop the surface level Windows API calls to read/write process memory, load DLLs into the process, etc. It will not stop those bad actors willing to go deeper and write drivers that can’t be hooked into by Byfron. It will merely instill fear in the hearts of ethical penetration testers who only want to rid Roblox of vulnerabilities: numerous of which have been found by ethical hackers on HackerOne who have hooked into the client and talked to the server in a specific way that elicited a vulnerable response. Doing ethical work like this becomes much more daunting when there is potential for punishment.
Rather what you should do is detect when there is tampering in those APIs that you have hooked into such as the Windows Process APIs, and end the client process, preventing any more tampering WITHOUT actually banning any HWIDs or user accounts. The punitive aspect serves only as a fear that will discourage ethical hackers and have 0 effect on those who make it their business to break Roblox for personal gain with no concern for ethics in doing so.
This is actually the status quo in the anticheat industry. For example, Easy Anticheat’s website states:
The EasyAC developers seek to make it so difficult to actually cheat that it causes the player to switch their mindset entirely, while never banning them in the first place.
I don’t think it’s a good idea to embed all of these intrusive measures that will harm the good guys more than the bad guys. It’s all an arms-race, and handicapping those few individuals who are helping you look for vulnerabilities will only put you further behind those who are constantly trying to break the client for less-than-ethical reasons.
- At this point in time, Hyperion is not compatible with Wine.
- We have disabled Wine to avoid unnecessary clutter in our Telemetry.
- Even if we could find a way to disable Telemetry for Wine only, the client would still not run, so it doesn’t make sense to do so.
To quote myself from the above post: First and most importantly, we are not trying to punish the use of Wine.
Don’t forget, AppImage also exists so they could also do that
In fact, there are TWO different open-source Roblox wrappers on Flatpak. One is Brinkervii’s Grapejuice with over 300,000 users, and the other is my new offering, Vinegar. Both offer standardized Wine builds and drivers, eliminating any chance for variations between distros.
On your third point, Wine does provide an existing method of filtering which is through the OSNAME (which reports WINE32) field of the Roblox telemetry packets.
I’d assume it would be trivial to filter out reports using this?
Will byfron compatible versions of tools such as FPS unlocker or Roshade continue to be safe? I ask because in RDC '19 it was stated that there won’t be any bans for using FPS unlocker. Is this true still?
Well, they just don’t work anymore with this update. It’s entirely preventative, no reason for bans to be handed out. The only alternative for rbxfpsunlocker is configuring a FastFlag that retargets the TaskScheduler FPS cap.
This is incorrect and misinformative.
Please do not post irrelevant, speculative content.
I’m speculating in case someone finds some way to make those tools work again.
Lets hope you’re right
This is kind of unreleated about Roblox being ran on Linux with Wine, but I’m having the same issue with Byfron from preventing me to launch Roblox on Windows at all. I mean It does launch Roblox but once my Roblox Client is joining the Game Server, Byfron (assuming it was Byfron) just stops me from joining by Closing the Roblox Client.
This has been preventing me to play Roblox for over 2 days. Please fix this.
If your wondering if I’m using Rblxfpsunlocker, or any programs that modifies the Roblox Client, no.
These issues are still mostly at a frontend level. The engine itself appears to work fine in Xbox. They’d be solved by the team at Roblox responsible for maintaining the graphical interface.
That’s the million dollar question. Roblox claims that compatibility with linux is a big priority, but I can’t help but feel like that’s a halfhearted statement.
Keep in mind that Xbox might simply not be receiving any improvements because there’s a lack of availability from the UI team at Roblox (which might not be the case), but all we can do is speculate. Only Roblox knows why they’re not fixing the issue (or if they’re aware of it at all).
Also keep in mind developers are a consideration with Linux, which isn’t the case for Xbox. Linux’s users could be “more valuable” than Xbox’s users simply because they have access to a bigger selection of experiences and to Roblox Studio.
It disappoints me to say that I believe you’re absolutely correct with this statement.
The total lack of communication Roblox has given us other than two engineers that are taking personal time to answer to our concerns in whatever way they’re allowed to has left me extremely disappointed with Roblox and their complete lack of transparency.
We should’ve gotten a heads up as soon as Roblox realized they’d have to block Wine. But most importantly, we should’ve gotten concrete details on what the future of Roblox on Linux will be.
I feel offended and disrespected by Roblox’s shameful vague, confusing and downright meaningless statements on what the future for Linux is. (I’m not mad or disappointed with @Bitdancer and @MrEakar, I appreciate their efforts on communicating with us as much as they’re allowed to, I’m mad and disappointed with Roblox’s policy of complete obscurity and lack of transparency.)
The future is uncertain, yet Roblox still hasn’t given us any concrete roadmap towards Linux. After 146 posts of back and forth discussion, we’ve only become aware of the following information:
- Linux allegedly remains a priority for Roblox’s team.
- Roblox Studio won’t have Wine compatibility intentionally blocked (at least, as far as @Bitdancer is aware).
Every other statement has either been a further explanation of why Roblox had to block Wine (which don’t get me wrong, is highly welcomed!) or a nothingburger, vague statements that don’t prove or disprove anything. We don’t know if Roblox is actively working on Linux compatibility, we don’t know if they straight up just don’t care, we don’t know anything, because Roblox has refused to make any clear statements about this situation.
For all we know, this could be the end of Roblox on Linux, yet we’re left guessing and hoping as Roblox refuses to address the elephant in the room.
Not only is it shameful and disrespectful to not to acknowledge the very obvious problem that everyone would like a clear answer to, but it’s also negligent and unprofessional to leave the future of developing on Linux in this platform for developers that already make a living out of it.
Roblox intentionally and abruptly ended Wine compatibility for the client without giving us any warning, only confirmed its intentions after we explicitly asked and now hasn’t even bothered to just tell us clearly what our future is in their platform.
Even if Wine “was never officially supported”, it nevertheless shows a complete lack of care & respect at a corporate level. We are hundreds of thousands of users that bring millions of revenue into Roblox’s coffers and that provide content to their platform that everyone can enjoy, regardless of their device/OS, yet Roblox hasn’t done anything for us. Some Roblox engineers have generously dedicated their personal time to answer our questions and provide help wherever possible/allowed, and we’re all extremely grateful for their dedication and care they’ve given to us, but Roblox’s overall policy towards Linux completely sucks, and I can’t help but feel a total lack of empathy towards us.
We’ve given Roblox:
- Our playtime as players.
- Our money as players.
- Our Intellectual Property as developers.
- Our skills and technical expertise as developers.
- Our code, commits, patches and contributions to make their software run on Linux, at no cost to them.
- Our bug reports, ideas and information to help them improve their product for Linux, at no cost to them.
Roblox has given us:
- Near 100% radio-silence.
- Complete lack of respect, professionalism and empathy.
- Half-hearted assurances that end up going nowhere, refusing to give us new, concrete details.
- Contradictory support policies, constantly flip-flopping around whether or not they consider us a “priority” or “irrelevant” for their objectives.
- Surprise (for us, not for Roblox) blocks from using their platform, without any sort of warning.
- No regard for our time that we spend making content and experiences that they get revenue from. “Oh? You pay your rent and groceries with Roblox? That’s too bad, wait until you’re suddenly (intentionally) crippled by the decision of immediately blocking you from the second-most important tool this platform has to offer. (Joining your own experiences online.) I sure hope you have a mobile device or are ready to switch OSes in a hurry, otherwise you might go to the streets with an empty stomach.”
What kind of platform that claims to be developer-friendly determines that has to cut some of them off, but doesn’t bother warning them in any way?
- A completely uncertain future where we don’t know if we’ll ever be able to use the Roblox platform to its full extent on Linux again, or if it’ll just keep getting worse.
if it wasn’t for the individuals at Roblox that volunteer themselves to throw whatever scraps they’re able to provide us with their spare time (and resources), would Roblox even acknowledge our existence?
Minority or not, this is not how you treat developers that are, quite literally, the spirit of your platform and users that go through these lengths just to participate in your platform.
It’s time to do better, recognize how badly this situation has been handled, and properly communicate with us for once, before more people lose faith in your platform forever. If it comes down to saying “we don’t care”, so be it, but tell us. We’ve done enough for Roblox to deserve an apology for the lack of empathy, respect and professionalism that we’ve felt victims from (NOT from Roblox’s employees, Roblox as a company), the lack of communication, the lack of consideration and the borderline “doing just enough to keep us guessing” attitude. We also deserve an objective explanation on Roblox’s future relationship with Linux.
Note: These questions are for Roblox as a whole. Individual Roblox employees volunteering their time is very welcome and appreciated, but should not be credited towards Roblox.
What is Roblox’s current stance on Linux and its community? Are we considered in any shape or form?
What kind of relationship does Roblox want to have with Linux in the future?
Is Roblox planning on bringing any sort of support/compatibility to Linux? If so, what’s the concrete time period? What needs to be done before Roblox is willing to consider Linux?
- What kind of treatment will Linux receive?
- First-class support (Equal to other platforms)
- Wine compatibility + official support
- Best effort Wine compatibility, no official support
- Linux is not a consideration
- What kind of treatment will Linux receive?
What can the Linux community do to help Roblox come to Linux?
Can we expect more transparency in the future?
We just don’t want to be left in the dark or on read anymore. Roblox is clearly very aware we want answers to these questions, and after this complete mess, don’t we deserve them? What’s the point in making us think you’re doing something for us when you aren’t? Save everyone involved their time and dignity and communicate to us. Don’t leave us guessing. Keeping this up will only continue to validate the feelings of dishonesty, disrespect, lack of empathy and thought, disregard and downright maliciousness that many have felt from this behavior.
No matter what Roblox’s actual stance is, it shouldn’t be hidden from us. It’s not only morally wrong, but reflects so many other communication issues that Roblox suffers from as a platform. That’s all.
Honestly, I don’t buy this specific point. Up until some point in
2019 2021, WINE simply did not work for the Roblox client until a problem with networking was fixed (Edit: see below). Running it was never blocked even though the client would not run. Now, we are back in pre- 2019 2021 with a non-working client, but we aren’t even given the option to try to make it work. It could be something very small or something super big that it is indeed a problem; we haven’t been communicated any details about what makes it not run.
The problem that prevented the client from working between 2015 and 2021 was much, much dumber than that. It was a missing function signature for
ZwFilterToken in ntdll.
Oh, right. Yeah, if they do that by circumventing Hyperion, that’s probably going to be bannable.