A case for Downvotes

Forum Help Forum Features
#12

Personally, I do not believe downvotes are the right way to approach this problem.

The issue with downvotes is that nobody learns what’s wrong from them and they are prone to misuse, but the problem with simple replies is that they get far separated from bad advice so casual readers never see them.

I think the better approach is a StackOverflow-like method of organizing replies. Then disagreements and clarifications are grouped below the post, and are immediately visible to the casual reader, which renders downvoting to point out bad advice unnecessary.

9 Likes
#13

I love it and I don’t, im 50-50 I would love something like this though! (lets turn this place into reddit)

#14

Don’t DM them, just reply to the topic. Correcting someone helps everyone learn whereas just telling someone they’re wrong without telling them why doesn’t. Future people viewing that topic might have the same confusion, so it’s helpful to have the discussion on the thread (as long as it doesn’t derail it too much)

2 Likes
#15

Replies can also get drowned out by other posts.

#17

  1. It isn’t a nessecary function.
    Inappropriate responses can be flagged and hidden by community.

  2. It creates a negative enviroment
    You create an awesome feature post but then get a ton of downvotes because people don’t like it.
    Instead of getting constructive critisism in comments you get a bunch of anonymous haters.

  3. Bad advice might not get filtered
    But it will be drowned out in the replies of those who give good advice and get likes.

2 Likes
#18

I feel like this shouldn’t be added at all, and here are some of my reasons:

  1. Abuse: It’s going to be abused, and we might start having problems with “vote brigading” (just google “vote brigading” and you’ll see what I mean by that, but if you want, vote brigading (per my definition at least) is when you get a mob of people to upvote/downvote something en masse regardless of agreeing or not to what they voted on, a blaring example is Reddit which often in the past had to deal with vote brigading. See here: Vote brigading - Wikipedia)
    Note that this might be confused often with “review bombing”, the two practices are very similar, but review bombing is purely to hamper a product’s reputation.

  2. Bullying: when you downvote a specific user just to harass them regardless if what they say contributes to the discussion or not), and given that downvotes are anonymous…

Moreso, this forum is more of a discussion board (per @wravager’s statement) and not Reddit nor Stack Exchange (which is more geared towards a Q&A system).

1 Like
#19

Personally, I do not like the way that dislikes are handled on Roblox. They’re too easily abused by people who are frustrated at a game. Rather than having a system that requires someone to give a comprehensive review on a game, it’s “play game for 5 seconds, then you have the ability to down or upvote.” It’s a very flawed and broken system and was poorly implemented in my opinion. Plus, dislikes do not tell the developer anything as to why that particular person downvoted a game other than making them guess.

Personally, if a downvote system were to be added to the DeveloperForum, the ability to dislike something should only be given to those with a certain trust level, otherwise we’re going to have cases of topics being downvoted to oblivion.

1 Like
#20

I think we definitely need some sort of system to filter the relatively frequent bad advice that pops up through the Help and Feedback categories, specifically Scripting Support. This is especially true with the influx of New Members–while Members are obviously still capable of giving bad advice, from what I have seen, it is usually New Members who pointlessly post advice regarding things they aren’t personally informed about, or otherwise contribute nothing meaningful to the thread.

I say that as a New Member myself. Considering the weakening of the forum restrictions, (which I wouldn’t be here without), there has to be some way to hold people accountable to their advice. That should be the primary goal, not creating an outlet to discourage people from posting. A Stack Overflow-like reputation system seems like it would work best.

Obviously, this would not be limited to New Members, but the influx of new forum members only strengthens the case for a reputation system.

Outside of the “advice-based” categories, however, I don’t feel like a downvote-like system would contribute anything meaningful. We already have the flag system, which is generally okay at getting rid of meaningless responses or clutter.

I think it might also pay to look at how overzealous users of the flag system can occasionally be. I come across a lot of flags that come off as unreasonable, and representative of a toxic culture, usually within discussion-based topics in which flags are distributed freely for the most benign of violations. A ‘downvote-like’ system should not emulate this; it should be a way for more experienced users with ‘reputation’ to draw attention to poor advice or misleading information. It should also be constructive–require people who ‘downvote’ a reply to post a visible reason, as Stack Overflow seems to do. That way, you can see what’s wrong with a solution, and judge advice on its merits.

I think Scripting Helpers already does something like this. This might be a lot of work to implement properly, but as the DevForum and the help sections grow, misinformation is inevitability going to become more rampant. The Devforum is an extremely useful resource, and this should not be compromised by a lack of accountability–outside the flag system, which requires extra moderation manpower, and can often be too extreme for an (often subjectively) poor response to a question.

2 Likes
#21

This is not specifically in relation to the idea of downvotes, but more the “reputation” system that has been discussed in this thread (justification for the inevitable upset generated by bumping any sort of thread)–

It looks like a system like this is now under consideration (but obviously not guranteed, so don’t take it with certainty), so I’m resurfacing the discussion.

I personally think this is highly necessary for Scripting Support now more than ever. Blatant misinformation and lack of knowledge on the part of some of the more frequent posters seems to have actually increased over the last few months–I’ve withdrawn from posting there because it’s an annoying experience for everyone.

Implementing “downvotes” or a “reputation-like” system would allow scripting support topics to focus on in-depth discussion of problems, allowing people with relevant knowledge or experience to tackle issues at depth (and allowing simple problems to be solved more efficiently, without junk spam on the behalf of people who feel the obligation to reply despite no knowledge of the core issue).

5 Likes
#22

I think it’s a good idea.

It would prevent me from making low effort (but very high quality) joke replies.

#23

4 posts were merged into an existing topic: Off-topic and necro-bump posts

Feature requests for the website go in #platform-feedback:website-features. Make sure you check which topic you’re replying to so you don’t accidentally respond to the wrong one.

#24

I think we should re-visit this one.

We really should only put this in Scripting Support, Code Review, and Game Design Support, but it would be very useful for this based-on-true-events example:

Scripting Support

NeedsHelp753875: “For some reason my DataStore won’t save?”
HelpfulGuy48237: “First, wrap your SetAsync() in a pcall(), then print the second variable you assigned. This might give us some info.”
NotHelpful858937: “just use DataStore2 it’s so much better”

Code Review

NeedsHelp753875: “Hey guys so I just made my DataStore script, is there any bad practices in here?”
HelpfulGuy48237: "Looks great for the most part, but normally you should do:

local Players = game:GetService("Players")

rather than

local Players = game.Players

NotHelpful858937: “bruh use DS2 mg it saves so much time and it’s literally better”

Game Design Support

NeedsHelp753875: “So basically my problem is, what should I call a group that likes to use traditional scripting methods without help from others?”
HelpfulGuy48237: “How about ‘The Traditional Scripters of Roblox’?”
NotHelpful858937: “‘We hate DS2 and Profile Service?’ that sounds like something…”

While NotHelpful858937’s replies might be considered flaggable, in reality they aren’t. We need this for quality solutions.

2 Likes
#25

Yeah, flagging for that is a bit over the top, but it would be nice to be able to respectfully and concisely say “this is a bit of a crap solution” without starting a drawn out argument or a flame war, through a rep/voting system, and it might drive people to think more carefully about their responses.

3 Likes
#26

I don’t see the need for this. Good comments will get liked more than replies that are bad for that matter. Let’s say we have a case in #help-and-feedback:scripting-support, and there are two scripts in the thread.

One of them has 6 likes, the other one has 1, from this we can see that the one with 6 likes is preferable because more people like it.

Downvotes are often abused and groups can target certain individuals and can be misused on posts/replies, which can lead to abuse of the tool, which I don’t agree with at all.
I see no flaws in the current system, and if it isn’t broken, don’t fix it.

#27

You can say the same for flags, likes, etc… Discourse provides moderators with the tools to see who is abusing what, and if users are being abusive with features, then they can be reprimanded. Simple as that.

There is a flaw. There is no way to prioritize better replies, at the moment the only way is through solutions since it will be embedded into the OP, but that is just 1. Implementing Q%A style plugin for the support categories would probably work best for this.

1 Like
#28

There are likes and solutions, I don’t really see what is wrong with the current state of the DevForum. Why should downvotes be added in the first place? If you don’t like a certain post then don’t like it, or if it breaks the rules you can flag it.
Downvotes can discourage people from posting and likes are more positive than downvotes. A post will usually get more likes due to the quality of it, and because of this likes can show which post has the most appreciation.

#29

You can’t flag something for being misinformation, and believe it is harsh for there to be punishment for being wrong. Now that is unwelcoming.

This is good – it means users that don’t know what they are talking about won’t post as they are the ones to receive more downvotes.

This is wrong in so many ways…in #help-and-feedback:scripting-support you can actually given an explanation that would benefit the OP, but get little to no likes, whereas someone spoonfeeding gets more likes + the solution.

3 Likes
#30

That is a different situation, if you flag something, it breaks the rules and is totally the fault of the user who posted it in the first place. You are also given a reason why it was flagged in the first place.

Or they might want to improve their post quality to get more likes next time? That’s a valid option as well, and is a lot more positive.

Then how do downvotes fix this situation? How does this help your point? My entire point was that quality posts get more likes than bad posts.

#31

Downvotes aren’t for reporting for breaking the rules…and a plugin could easily let users that downvote give a required reason why they downvoted.

why would you do it for likes lol, in a world like this not everything is positive, people need to be exposed to reality. if you got downvoted that much in the first place that is on you for trying to tackle a topic you don’t know the answer to

By discouraging users to spoonfeed. It won’t reflect well on them.

They don’t always, see above.

Stack Overflow is a great example of a Q%A site that has downvotes still, and overall the way it is structured is great. Roblox should take inspiration.

1 Like
#32

Except flagging sends a message to the person and a staff member reviews it.

This isn’t the case though, on a lot of sites, this is true, and a lot of people upgrade their post quality for likes/upvotes.

Alright, I can see what you mean here, but I can’t see how this will help with other types of posts. It’s not as if downvotes will only be used for this.

So downvotes are the solution? Spoonfeeding is one issue I can see you have brought up. How will this help otherwise?