Create Experiences for People 17 and Older on Roblox

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#308

I’ve had a bit more time to consume the thread. I do have a few more thoughts I want to post about that I decided would be better to be aired rather than kept within my circles.

Maybe I’m simply uninformed, but I think the fear of showing ID is pretty unfounded. It’s not particularly any different from going to a store, buying a regulated product and being asked to show ID where the ID will be actively scrutinised to make sure it’s valid, you don’t just flash it and put it away. Same goes here - Roblox doesn’t hold your ID, a verified vendor processes it and tells Roblox if the given ID is valid or not.

I’m not willing to jump into the fire with any of the debates on this thread though. Over concern for my own safety and security on this platform, while I am ID and phone verified, I retract my previous statement about being excited about developing 17+ experiences on the platform. I don’t want a single misstep, lack of communication or arbitrary decision to be the trigger that ends my 13 years of Roblox.

Some issues I pick a fence with:

  • Voice chat moderation. Seen it everywhere, discussed it everywhere, I’m not willing to be another user banned because Roblox is whimsical about its vision versus reality for voice chat.

  • Lack of full roll out. The full extent of policy changes, support for 17+ content and aggressive implementation of new fields for PolicyService is sorely lacking, and the only tool given is a blanket “this is 17+ or not”. I think this is a powerful feature with lots of room to expand and investigate as well as potentially factor in parents as 17 year olds are still not adults either way.

  • Lack of financial incentive and analytics. 38% DAU in one year doesn’t feel substantial. How much of those users were paying users and what does the platform breakdown look like? I, and I’m sure other developers, are not in a position to operate at a loss. Roblox helps in paying for a lot of my expenses and sense of security before I return to post secondary.

  • Lack of communication. A single, unhighlighted post just a few digits from 300 that barely provides any new information and just rephrases the thread with more words is not substantial and reeks of PR speak/clarification. Product and moderation need to step up their efforts in talking to the developer community about such impactful changes. Engineering has made a significant effort on this front and some engineers now regularly respond to user questions in threads and even go out of their way to answer questions in other parts of the forum such as support threads. Product and moderation are still SORELY behind, and it is unacceptable. I condemn the lack of effort in the strongest words possible.

In short: I’m fully in agreement with the move to age up the platform, but not like this. When I am already walking on eggshells to avoid getting moderated just for sneezing*, there is no way I’m taking a risk with 17+ content even if I am completely abiding by the set policies. We are still being handheld for how to tailor our experiences and given an unrelenting, unworkable dichotomy.

*There’s going to be someone who misquotes this, so I have to declare that I do not literally mean I will sneeze and get moderated. This is in reference to how easy it is to lose everything and get banned on the platform with no adequate developer support and security.

17 Likes
#309

Does this still mean that even in 17+ experiences we have to make females look like adolescent boys with somewhat feminine hair and clothes because the female body has been quietly deemed to be considered “sexual content”?

I mean in 17+ content will we ever be allowed to make a female that looks 17+ or even 13+ for that matter.

4 Likes
#310

Sorry if I’ve skimmed over some content, but will this include relaxing moderation on some profane words in experiences?

1 Like
#311

The red solo cups were an example.
Actual relationships between users is disallowed probably because it’s weird and allows opportunities for misguided people to do misguided things.

#312

Roblox’s ID requirements for 17+ content are necessary to protect the company from liability.

Roblox is a publicly traded company, and as such, they have a responsibility to protect themselves and their investors from liability.
If they allow minors to access 17+ content without verifying their age, they could be sued by parents or other adults who believe that their child was harmed by the content.

In addition, Roblox is available in many countries, and some of those countries have laws that require age verification for 17+ content. If Roblox does not comply with these laws, they could be banned from those countries.

It could also impact Roblox’s actual maturity rating, which if it was changed due to easy access to mature 17+ experiences, would greatly negatively impact Roblox as a whole, including how it can be advertised and videos of it on sites like YouTube.

Roblox has already been upgraded by the ESRB to be considered Rated “Teen”. If this was further upgraded to Mature 17+, Roblox would likely be banned from many app stores and on top of that end up where you need to age verify your account in order to download it from from many others. Do you know how hard it is on Microsoft for a 10 year old just to access online play, chat, friends list, etc.? … and that’s Minecraft!

Mobile users are a HUGE portion of Roblox’s customer base. They could not afford to have Google Play and Apple App Store restrict their app.

I understand that some people may not like the idea of having to provide their ID to access 17+ content on Roblox. However, I’m certain that Roblox staff believes that the benefits of protecting the company from liability outweigh the inconvenience of having to provide ID.

Here are some specific reasons why Roblox’s ID requirements are necessary:

  • To protect the company from liability in the event that a minor is harmed by 17+ content.
  • To comply with laws in countries that require age verification for 17+ content.
  • To ensure that only adults have access to 17+ content, which may contain violence, gore, or other mature themes.
  • To keep Roblox being advertised and distributed from becoming 17+ content.
  • To keep Roblox accessible to kids in general.
  • Roblox getting upgraded to have a Mature 17+ rating would be financially devastating and cost them a huge portion of their user base.

I know that it’s not ideal, but I just don’t think there’s a lot of choice involved.

I also think it’s frustrating that there is no way to bypass the ID requirement for voice chat. However, I understand why Roblox is doing it.

I also agree that Roblox moderation is over the top. The stuff I’ve seen people banned for… the stuff I’ve had moderations myself for… it’s absolutely insane.

I think that Roblox could do a better job of explaining the reasons for their ID requirements.
They could also make it easier for users to verify their age.

Overall, I’m sure that Roblox’s ID requirements are necessary to protect the company (“and its users”).
However, I think that Roblox could do a better job of explaining the reasons for these requirements and making it easier for users to verify their age.

As a footnote, I’m sure Roblox is aware of. A large portion of their 17-24 demographics still began on Roblox at a younger age. If they alienate their younger population (or the parents that allow their kids to play), there won’t be future generations of kids that grew up with Roblox still playing it at 17-24.

Otherwise, most of what you said I wholly agree with.
There’s just a difference between the insanely ridiculous and ambiguous terms around moderation and the ID requirements for rated 17+ content, they are two separate issues.

Keep in mind, I’ve had literally mind-boggling discussions about moderation with staff. I have an entire post I’ve been meaning to share about how some of their moderation policies are sexist and how their lack of transparency on them is appalling… like the fact that NOWHERE in the TOS is “Sexual Content” defined or described, but essentially, the entire post-adolescent female body is pretty much considered sexual content as well as so much more that is just ludicrous, and it doesn’t matter, because what is considered “Sexual Content” is actually up to whoever is moderating it.

Personally, I think a LOT of people in these 17+ experiences are going to end up getting banned. I am really curious how they’re going to allow the content to even exist when I got a moderation flag because a “Tavern” sign has a depiction on it that they said looked too much like a cartoon beer mug. As a developer, I’d be frightened to be in the early adopters of 17+ experiences unless I was one of those inner circle devs with friends at staff to rescue their account. Honestly, I think those people are the only ones remotely safe doing this stuff right now.

4 Likes
#313

Not on release, but later on it will probably be allowed.

#314

Does this mean gambling games that previously fit within the old criteria will still be allowed up until the September Date?

1 Like
#315

It is on the parents if that ever occurs, because if a counter-measure of some sort would be added towards that, the few people who are in their 20s or 30s or even older wouldn’t even be able to play simply because it would assume that a kid must had stolen an id. That’s entirely impractical, age verification for 17+ is the best measure there is.

1 Like
#316

I only see this severely crippling gory games tbh.

1 Like
#317

Should 13+ games that have the blood effects and gore effects toggle option (off by default) be bumped up to the 17+ age guidelines?

1 Like
#318

Great update in general, though I believe that later on, Roblox should add even more age demographics for the older play base, like 18+, similar to the Adults only rating by the ESRB, or 21+ with age verification of course (example could be simulated gambling games for the 21+ audience) it allows the older developers to create more unique experiences that you don’t usually get due to the current rules and allows for even more interesting experiences targeted at an older audience. This is an amazing update and I hope roblox starts focusing more on expanding this so the rules get less strict on what’s prohibited and what’s not prohibited as the rating goes higher. Since I believe allowing experiences with an 18+ with an adults only rating like the ESRB allows for the older audience to play games that they feel like suits them. While I see some speaking out against age verification, an id age verification system is the best solution when expanding the type of experiences for older audiences. Since this platform was originally tailored towards children under 13 and for 13+, the same people who were children back in the beginning are now adults, and adding an 18+ and 21+ to roblox will allow experiences to be tailored for them. Great decision overall.

2 Likes
#320

Does this mean that creators now can make a gambling game (poker, blackjack, betting, etc) ?

#321

No, actually the opposite, now you are not allowed to do this at all while you previously could as long as Robux was not involved.

1 Like
#323

I credit Roblox for attempting to appeal to the, minority, older audience that utilizes Roblox, in order to gain more from that market, but I feel as though this release and the opinions I see here give more weight to the absolute fact that this isn’t exactly what Roblox should be focusing on.

As we all are aware Roblox has faced many controversies as a result of the mix between audiences on the platform both in gameplay and development. With this they introduced the ID verification feature which immediately became subject to certain praise and criticism as the feature aimed to separate children from the teenage audience here. Now we are faced with the separation of another class: teenagers from young-adults. This is all centered around the ID verification feature which is (in my opinion) critical to the entireties of the updates as it is probably the most effort that a corporation has put into ensuring the actual age of users in order to protect themselves. While many here may argue that plenty of other games are worse yet don’t have such an age verification technique, but those games have ALWAYS been geared towards the older gamer audience, while Roblox has ALWAYS been geared towards a younger audience but is now making a drastic shift in the audiences they’re aiming for- hence why the system exists. (edited)

I suppose what I’m trying to get at is my opinion after summarizing my reasoning for it. With this, I believe that Roblox is making these changes too quickly. It feels like it was just yesterday that the ID verification and children-teenager separation was introduced, yet we already have another change that is supposedly meant to appease another sector of the market, a change which already has many developers asking questions about their current creations (like how they’re games will be affected), what exactly Roblox will define as 17+ with the new policy amendments, etc. Plus, as pointed out by others here, how many people that are actually 17+ will actually want to pull out their ID just so they can play a watered down version of a fully fledged (fill in the blank) game? At this point, I believe this release is a mistake. I’m not saying it isn’t a bad idea, I’m just saying that it needs more thought before attempting to appeal to such an audience (especially when most of the analytics are probably unverified kid lying about their age, or a verified kid that just had their parent do it for them).

2 Likes
#324

I was just wondering if they would allow online dating, recently there was an update based on it.
since its 17+ of age.

1 Like
#325

Ironically, in attempting to broaden your horizons and become more than “just a kids game platform”, you have shown yourself to be infinitely more childish compared to the competition, none of which require ID verification at all to play more mature games. Heck, not even games platforms. Imagine if YouTube required you to use an ID to watch age-restricted videos. That’s how ridiculous this is.

It feels like one part of your company wants to move in a new direction and appeal to a more broad gaming crowd, while another part wants to play to its own stereotype and be “just that one wacky game for kids”.

You did not need ID verification to pull this off. Not at all.

12 Likes
#326

Only unplayable deciptions of these places and the gambling-related things within are allowed. If you show a casino or other gambling objects it cannot be playable in any way

1 Like
#327

Right, sorry, I’m not sure if you’re providing a disagreement or quoting to expand a bit on that for other users to read, but these encompass a bit of my thoughts as well, ergo why I think showing ID is an unfounded fear among several of the posters here. Some developers are acting as if the picture of their ID is going to be permanently held, distributed and smacked on their account with anyone able to steal it if their Roblox account is breached - some are straight up talking about account security, which is just erroneous and irrelevant to ID verification discussion.

If Roblox is not the entity holding my ID and it is being processed by a verifiable, reputable third party that will only hold it for as long as necessary, then I’m not troubled. I give my ID, they make sure it’s valid, then I get a checkmark saying that I passed the verification at some point.

3 Likes
#328

but im making a game with things that would fit that 17+ rating, how does that work?

1 Like
#329

If you’re talking about me, I wasn’t talking about accoutn security but game security, no mature adult wants to join a game where they’re constantly dry humped from an animation, flung by a very old velocity exploit that’s impossible to fix without sacrificing latency and general cheaters flying around.
Tell me one actual game outside roblox that has these issues.
YWNBARGC, Roblox.
Go meta go broke.