Question about Intellectual Property

Help and Feedback Art Design Support
#1

I am a member of a development group that creates models and meshes (along with other things) for games. We don’t upload these models (or any other our products) to the toolbox, they are downloaded from our website. Now, let’s say, a group we sell it to uploads one of our models to the toolbox and starts handing it out to people for free. Are we able to take their group or account or model they uploaded down, and, if so, how?

Edit: If sold the product to a group and then that group were to upload the model, can we get the group taken down, or only the owner of the group? If we sold the model to the group but then the owner uploads it onto their account for people to take then can we get the group taken down or only the user?

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#2

I seriously doubt that you would get a whole group taken down. If something like this were to happen and you found out, you would be best served to send an email to Roblox, detailing your situation.

Doing that would probably only take the model down and a warning given to the sole person who uploaded it to the group.

#3

If that is the case, then what is the email, or would you send an ordinary report?

#4

Probably info@roblox.com because it concerns an account. You could alternatively report the asset via the website as stolen property and it would get removed.

#5

I’m sorry if I misunderstood something but isn’t it within their rights to do whatever they want with the asset since they bought it?

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#6

They are given the rights to use it in the group/game they purchased it for only (as far as I am aware).

#7

That’s true. Unless you explicitly say “I don’t want this sold on” and attach some form of copyright licence, having bought it they can do whatever they want with it.

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#8

Roblox already gives us copyright for our assets (Reminder about IP).

#9

You sold a product without an agreement/contract, selling something means they have ownership of the asset(and are free to do what they want with it) unless stated somewhere else.

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#10

Well, I can always make an agreement and/or contract, but last I checked, you can’t enforce a contract to minors?

#11

Kids have parents/guardians who can sign a contract for them, but please see your own country’s rules about this.

#12

Let’s say the contract does get signed. Will Roblox even help to enforce it? If the client breaches the contract then will Roblox take action?

#13

I don’t think that is necessarily true. By working on Roblox, anything you make -IP wise - automatically goes to them.

I am not a lawyer btw

#14

You can file a DMCA claim and roblox is legally bound to follow up on the claim and resolve it with the involved parties.

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#15

If I specify consequences on the contract/agreement then does Roblox have to follow those consequences or will they do what they feel fit?

(gtg for a few hours)

#17

I am not a lawyer, but to my understanding:

If you want this to only be used in a single place, then you need to attach a license agreement to the work that you’re selling. Those that you’re selling to do not need to sign a contract, the license is still valid and enforceable regardless.

Having them sign a contract or click an “I agree” button would be extra leverage against them in any sort of legal battle, as it shows that they must have read your license.

Given that, I’ll address some other concerns:

What if the developer I’m selling to is under 18?

Then they don’t get to use your work. If they pay for your work and try to use it then they still can’t use your work. They are under 18 so they cannot agree to a contract or license. You might need to refund them.

What rights does Roblox have? Does putting my work on Roblox let anyone use it?

Roblox has practically all rights to your work, except rights to change the license or control who can’t use your work.

Roblox can use your work anywhere they want, and they can sublicense it out to anyone they want. They could say “everyone can use this” and you couldn’t do anything, but Roblox won’t be doing that. Putting your work on Roblox does not mean that anyone can use it. Roblox may use your work in advertisements and may sublicense your work to advertisement producers or something.

What if someone makes it “free to use” in the toolbox?

Those you sell to will be breaking Roblox’s terms by doing this, and those who take it from the toolbox will be breaking your copyright license.

The proper channel to go through for this is the DMCA takedown process, but I’m not sure how well that works in situations such as these. I’ve heard that asking to take down small assets like this doesn’t usually succeed.

Do I need to add any special provisions in my license for Roblox?

Yes. If you sell your assets to someone with a restrictive license then they cannot upload those assets to Roblox. They do not have the copyright ownership required to grant Roblox all of the rights they agree to give Roblox on upload. Uploading the assets to Roblox breaks Roblox’s terms! If you don’t give Roblox rights to your assets, then Roblox is not allowed to host, store, transmit, etc. your assets which is necessary for games on Roblox. While unlikely, Roblox could ban developers you sell to for breaking the terms and could remove all assets you sold since Roblox lacks the rights to do anything with them.

You need to add a special provision in your license stating “Developers who have bought the Assets can grant Roblox Corporation rights to use the Assets in any way” or similar.

What if I try to limit what Roblox can do with the assets?

Then the developers you sell to technically cannot upload to Roblox because they cannot fulfill both Roblox’s terms and your license agreement. Roblox has to be able to do anything with your assets including sublicense them. Check the terms.

In this scenario:

  • Developers you sell to can use your assets
  • Developers you did not sell to cannot use your assets
  • Roblox can use your assets, since you included a “Roblox can use these assets under these {restrictive permissions}”
  • Developers you sell to cannot upload your assets to the site since they cannot grant Roblox all the rights that the terms of service ask for.

This is pretty complicated. Roblox could just block your assets or ban the developers for breaking the terms, but they don’t actually have to remove the assets since you gave Roblox rights.

I’d just avoid this scenario. Let developers give Roblox the rights they ask for so developers you sell to don’t have to break Roblox’s terms to upload stuff they bought.

Rationale

Most of this follows some inductive reasoning: I know that A is true in some case, so in our very similar case, B is most likely true.

Licenses don’t require a contract

You can find tons of assets online with various licenses: open-source, source-available, payment-required, free to use with attribution, etc.
You don’t sign anything to accept those licenses. If you use the work just because you assume “if I can grab the files, I can use it? What’re you gonna do?” then you’re breaking the copyright license and can be sued for it. You can also be DMCA’d, which is much nicer, but they can still sue you :stuck_out_tongue:

Under-18 does not make things “free to use”

If someone under 18 finds one of the above assets with a license, it does not mean they’re free to use it however they want. Given that, either they cannot use the assets at all or they can agree with the license.

Under-18 cannot sign agreements or contracts, so if you require one to sign a contract then they absolutely cannot use your assets at all since they can’t have a valid signed contract making them eligible to use the assets.

Putting assets on the toolbox does not make them “free to use”

If someone takes something they don’t own – say assets from a popular AAA game – then they obviously are not free to just upload it to Roblox and make it free to use. They are breaking the license by using it, Roblox is breaking the license by using it, and everyone who grabs it is breaking the license by using it. Roblox is protected by the DMCA, but everyone else could end up in a costly legal battle!

We can take two things from this:

  1. You cannot grant others the right to use assets from the toolbox if you’re incapable of granting those rights under normal conditions.
  2. You are not free to use everything in the Toolbox. You’re only free to use assets where the uploader was capable of granting you rights to use it.

If someone takes your assets and makes them free to use on Roblox without the rights to do so, both them and anyone who grabs it are breaking your license.

Roblox licensing

Roblox’s terms state that anything you upload they are allowed to use for any purpose including sublicensing.

Obviously, you can’t grant Roblox rights to something if you are not capable of granting rights – just look at the example above. If you aren’t capable of granting those rights the you’re breaking your agreement with Roblox. In that case, if Roblox uses your work, then they’re breaking yourn License, but that’s okay because of the DMCA – you can just ask to take it down and Roblox has to comply or risk a legal battle.

Additionally, I think that uploading the assets would break the developer’s license with you, unless you include that special provision for Roblox.

Keep in mind that I’m not a lawyer. I figured I’d chime in with my understanding, but none of this is legal advice. As far as you’re aware, the “copyright law”, corporations, people, and other things in this post are entirely fiction. Any resemblance to reality is purely coincidental. :stuck_out_tongue:

Go ask a lawyer if you’re seriously concerned.

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#18

That last post was mostly to cover all the questions and topics brought up since the initial post.

To answer your original question:

From a legal perspective, you’re supposed to be able to take the model down using the DMCA. To my understanding, you can probably sue the developer that made it free for piracy – that is, giving away copyrighted IP when they don’t have the rights to do so.

I wouldn’t rely on the DMCA takedown process working when you’re a small developer with small assets made for Roblox. I haven’t heard a case where that’s succeeded, but I’d love to be shown evidence that it works!

You could also try emailing info@roblox.com but I wouldn’t rely on them taking it down either – I haven’t heard of any successful cases except for when large, well-known developers with popular games ask for a takedown. Again, I’d love to be proven wrong!

Roblox could ban the users for breaking the terms, but that also seems unlikely. I have not heard of that happening in common cases with small assets.

Again, I’m not a lawyer, this is not legal advice, and you should be asking a copyright lawyer these questions.

#19

One of the groups I’m part of had their assets leaked - I can’t find an image of the reply notifying them that the content was taken down (it was eventually successful), but this photo shows they clearly have systems in place for this:

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The user account who leaked it was also banned (going on the user through their place gives a 404 error).

It has successfully worked before, and it should work for others - although your mileage may vary.

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#20

I’m excited to see that this is the case!

Most of my understanding of how Roblox handles these situations is years-old, and I have no way of keeping up with how Roblox handles these situations since that’s not public knowledge. I’m just hesitant to recommend trusting info@roblox.com to help when it might fail them when they need it.

I’m not sure how Roblox would treat assets bought off-site, but that’s certainly a good sign! I’m happy to see that Roblox is more willing to help with these situations than they were years ago.

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