Slight rant — The problem with the Roblox devforum in 1 picture

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#71

I can’t believe someone said those things to you over a very minor thing. The last sentence in the last message really shocks me because no one should be saying, “you really don’t belong here.” I think a lot of new members are taking this forum way too seriously and trying way to hard to get promoted and stand out. Something needs to be done about this as lots of people are leaving or laying low on this forum because they are afraid/don’t want to get these sorts of messages. This forum has turned into a place where you can’t do a single thing wrong without it being picked up on.

There is also way too many low quality replies scattered around the forum stating what a user has done wrong. If someone posts something in the wrong category I can grantee you the first 3 or 4 replies will state that the post is in the wrong place. There is no need to have 4 replies stating that a post in in the wrong place, all you need is one or even better just flag the post and let a moderator deal with it. This way you don’t clog the forum up with lots of low quality posts.

My thoughts on what could be done
At the moment is is extremely easy to get into the developers forum because as far as I know all you need to do is read for a certain amount of time. There needs to be more stricter requirements to even be promoted to new member. For example a requirement could be that you have to read the rules before you are promoted.

This forum is also lacking discussions. At the moment this forum has turned into a massive support hub. We need to have a complete rework of the whole forum to create places where discussions can happen and not just support. I really like the idea that @Quenty has with making a new category called projects.

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#72

I agree, I got more use out of the devforum in that span of time. I do still post things when I need help with something, but from ~2016-2017 I enjoyed being on the forum more and engaging in discussion. Nowadays I find it hard to do that, but I don’t know what my true reasons are for that.

Time to start our own Inner Circle™ Devforum

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#73

I agree completely @Quenty. The categories need to be reorganized so that ones that actually facilitate and encourage discussion are closer to the top and get more attention.

I also agree with the point that’s been expressed that people are aggressive and toxic. This place is starting to remind me of the Scripters forum on Roblox’s old forum…

Beyond those two points though I think I disagree with everything else being said here. There’s no ‘problem’ with flagging in the way that people like @ScriptOn assert. Nor is there a problem with people not saying ‘thank you’ to everyone they want to thank like people like @Sentross are saying. Label me toxic if you want, but please be realistic. A half dozen people flagging something out of 10,000 people isn’t a systemic issue. That’s half a dozen bad actors. People shouldn’t be filling threads with things that the majority of readers will just skip over. This forum is for everyone, not just the people who someone is saying thank you to.

There are real issues to be addressed that have been brought up here. Let’s not muddy the water with things that have no bearing or are outright off topic like posting threads that have been flagged with comments like “this is ridiculous…”.

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#74

I think the post cool down is an excellent idea. It will force people to put more thought into their posts. They will have no choice but to see the situation at every angle, resulting in a much more high-quality reply.

Although while that is a good solution for length and clarity, it won’t change the main issue which is the attitude of members involved in the issue.

#75

This is a common problem associated with rapid growth but as harsh as it feels to say… I agree. I will always support the ambition and determination of any person who wants to be a developer. But I don’t feel those people should be allowed in this forum without first proving themselves. I’ve seen many people who really want to be developers but very basic (making simple out of standard things, staying small, etc.) I am talking about the people who just throw in a million free models into a game without doing anything themselves and consider that trying to be a developer. Is it a path? Yes. I am sure we all started at that point and grew to come here when we were new and young. And yes, I am essentially saying people should rough it out in the beginning without help on this forum.

Once again, sure this sounds harsh but I think giving them the first few months to figure stuff out on their own will only grow their experience not only in developing but developer conversation. They will be in an environment to make mistakes without penalty of being removed from the forums. They will learn from those mistakes, adapt, and build their own style of communication. Then if we let them into the forum, they’d be much better equipped. This is kind of what we did before we made the forums open. But I believe this way is better than letting these complete beginners start here on the DevForum to only be improperly molded into the forums image with no background experience or knowledge to know whats going on.

And to add on, ROBLOX is a platform full of kids. Yes, the top developers are most of the time young adults or either kid who probably started earlier and have built even more experience. But besides that the majority are still learning not only to develop, but being the fact most of the platform is full of kids, they are also still learning proper social skills. So to let the forum be open to all is opening it up to developers (kids or not) that have not built the communication skill set needed. Of course, mentioning kids is only one example. When I was in middle school, there were plenty of middle school kids not as mature as I was (since I spend a lot of time communicating with older developers at the time) and even in high school, I notice that once in a while.

And sure, DevForum does not let accounts under 13. But many people don’t even put in their real age, so by letting in everyone, we are literally letting in everyone.

#76

Hey everyone,

We just wanted to assert that we’re actively listening to your feedback and interested in improving the forum as a result of it.

Going forward, we’re going to set up some focus groups to meet with some of you to get a better understanding of some of the points you’re raising.

It’s really great to receive such passionate feedback about the forum. There’s a lot of potential to improve based on your feedback, and it’s incredibly well-timed too: our Q4 goal with the Community Sages is to improve the experience of using the forum for power users and those who want to have in-depth development discussions.

Your feedback honestly could not have come at a better time.

Thanks,
coefficients & Nightgaladeld

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Add a feedback category so the support channels don't get flooded
#77

Virtually anyone can join and post in the dev forum. I appreciate that you do not lay the blame on new members, but this unrestricted access is definitely harmful to the dev forums.

I’ve been reading dev forum posts for awhile without really making an account, and I was surprised to find reading only a couple of articles while signed in registered me as a member.

There is a 13 age limit, but honestly young kids will fake their age anyways. A huge amount of dev forum members seek recognition and the forum’s incentive systems make it not much better than a glorified twitter. I barely check forums anymore, only going through to dig up older/actually useful posts.

#78

FWIW the beta user thread is preprocessed by a bot so it’s quicker to deal with for DevRel at high request volume, so they were actually trying to be helpful. The bot expects the format in OP of that topic.

I’m not sure if just their responses were inappropriate or if some response to the message you sent aggravated them before that, but in any case feel free to flag stuff in DMs too if it’s inappropriate. Staff look at those flags too.

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#79

The fact a half-dozen even has the power to have a post flagged and force-edited shows an inherent problem in the system. You say the forums is for everybody then disregard the concerns of people who have first-hand experienced flag abuse. To trivialize others concerns as not ‘real issues’ is not a healthy discussion and will not lead to resolution, only more conflict. It becomes alienating.

The inevitable as I see it: Flagging is a band-aid solution to growing pains and shows the devforum was not nearly prepared for this amount of users. It can’t and won’t hold up to the further expansion of the forums as a means to control low quality posts and mods can’t be on 24/7 to watch abusers like a hawk. Its a disturbance to discussions. It might work if we had an older userbase, but the majority of people on here are fairly young. You were around during the OG devforums. When a lot of the now older users were around 15 or something. It wasn’t pretty. The kind of mentality and behavior many had back then will be amplified.

1 Like
#80

One of the small things which I believe is a recent issue in the devforums is the introduction of 30 character limits for posts. Not only is this a barrier, it does more bad than good because small one word answers end up either: a) having to use more words to say “yes” or b) write impractical text at the end of the post to fill the 30 character limit.

This addition is a direct result of the exponential increase of members to the forums, and was never needed beforehand.

Here are some examples of what I am referring to.

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#81

As someone who started as a lurker of the forums in 2015 and eventually becoming a new member with the introduction of the new automated system, I can say the forums are not what I expected.

The main purposes I have for the forums includes #development-support:scripting-support, however I have now grown to use that as a last resort and use things like the Developer Hub and programming Discord servers before going to scripting support.

Don’t get me wrong, many of the top contributors on Scripting Support, such as @colbert2677 are fantastic contributors to our community, however, there are many who feel the need to correct your code (and sometimes it’s not even a valid correction- it’s just their opinion)

The main issue, as highlighted by many people is flagging and moderation.

Flags are a wonderful feature introduced by Discourse. It lets the forum moderators be facilitators for rich discussion, not police officers telling you what to and not do do.

However, with Roblox’s main userbase being users under 13- despite the forums having a 13+ requirement, there are many people who are younger, or who have a language barrier and do not understand the rules.

This can have two impacts:

  1. Bad posts
  2. Misuse of flags
  3. A bit of both: I’ve seen many people who speak little English unintentionally break rules and get flagged into oblivion

If we want to be a welcoming community, we need to ensure that the rules are as clear as possible for everyone.

  1. There needs to be more clarity on some rules
  2. The rules need to be available in other languages, being professionally translated (correct me if I’m wrong, but I’m unsure if they are)
  3. Community members, regardless of language or nationality, need to be given a clear welcome and advise on where to start reading.

Flagging abuse

People have used flags as a weapon or otherwise abused them, intentionally or not.
In my personal opinion, when a flag is handled by a moderator, the user should be told what the moderator thinks (Discourse currently does this, but only for flags where you use Something Else).

Unintentional Abuse

If users were told that the stuff they’re flagging isn’t against the rules, they can then use that and flag better in the future.

Another thing we need is a closer Developer Relations/Engagement team
Apologies if I’m confusing the terms

It’d be fantastic to see Roblox Staff members being active on the DevForum and providing users with feedback, as well as helping the community.

Currently, some people see Developer Relations as police when they shouldn’t be seen as such.

EDIT: I personally find it amusing that @coefficients made this announcement a few minutes after my reply.

5 Likes
#82

omg this. Even though I’d love to be optimistic and say Scripting Support is a great resource, it’s really not great at all. I’ve used it a bit but I ask 99% of my questions on Discord now. Some people just don’t know what they’re talking about, even if they have the best of intentions :confused:

6 Likes
#83

Back on the old Roblox forum, it was a dice roll to see how long it took a thread to get taken down by a mod, and it was a problem, to put it lightly. Abusive threads stayed up for however long they did no matter what the contents and I presume that was part of why they got canned.

Having users he able to hide posts like they can with flags is a massive boon. If half a dozen people think something is breaking the rules strongly enough that it should be removed, I would rather it get hidden from non-members than not. I don’t see it as a problem until people start abusing it – at which point they should probably just get their flagging permissions revoked or if that’s not an option just get a normal strike on their devforum account. If that’s not happening, that’s an issue we should be talking about (is it happening @coefficients?) .

I recognize that people have seen flagging abuse but the volume makes it more of a glitch in the system than anything else. In the last 7 days there’s been about 15,000 posts made (via the About page on the devforum). Of those, if even 10% were flagged that’s around 214 flags a day, and I assume DevRel would notice a measurable amount of false flags out of that. As is, it’s a lot less than 10% so the number of false flags has to be much much less.

It’s a noticable annoyance but it’s not exactly a systemic issue.

4 Likes
#84

I agree certain one-word answers can lead this to be a barrier, but also a lot of the images you posted could’ve been honestly written better. What you posted is more of an example of the abundance of low-quality posts.

For Example:

1st image could’ve been said better such as:
Oh yeah, I forgot. Sorry, my bad. (And example of writing over 13 characters without even knowing the context of that message)

2nd image:
This is actually a better example of how the limit is more of a barrier.

3rd image (definitely low quality and could’ve been so much better):
I have a question, what is the payment?
(Easily made to be 13+ characters with one again no knowledge of the context of this message)

4th image:
I’m sure this could’ve been written better but I don’t have a better example as I don’t know what they were talking about.

5th image: (honestly being this is a ROBLOX staff is just disappointing, no offense)
Sorry to say, this may be around 2020 unfortunately.

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#85

The flagging abuse for many is more described as irritating that some annoyance you can swipe away. It encourages conflict between the community because we are giving a community of a young audience so much power they won’t know how to use responsibly. Do you think the mods can actually manage this on a large scale? Disrupting discussions and making people feel like they are guilty of doing something wrong before its even been reviewed isn’t good either. Surely we can find some middle ground than just ‘hide it from everybody and/or delete it until reviewed’ at least. I can’t see flagging holding up forever. If we plan just for the current size we’ll be right back where we started with growing pains. We need long term solutions.

I was referring to the OG devforums. Back when there was a handful of us on here. We’ve now multiplied people like that by many times.

#86

I do actually believe that the mods can handle this. Discourses’s tools for handling flags are incredibly useful and make it easy enough. Long term, I can’t imagine the volume of flags will increase to the point that DevEngagement can’t handle it. If it does, something has gone terribly wrong with the community and with DevRel for not preparing.

I don’t think the solution to this is getting rid of flags or making them not hide posts. That solves this problem but ignores the obvious benefits of having both.

And yeah I know. I was talking about the original forum to show that having posts hidden by flags is a good thing.

#87

These were just random selections, they werent meant to be up for criticism. I was just outlining the workarounds people use to get around the barrier, not highlighting their grammar.

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#88

I’ve noticed that the international forum recently got divided into their own language forums.

Since I speak Spanish sufficiently (and was already a somewhat-active member of their community), I added myself to the new Spanish Developers group. Doing so gives me access to a whole new category that only people in my group can view/post on:

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That is to say that your feedback must’ve played a role in this change…

My only problem so far is that you have to navigate to the ‘groups’ page in order to do that.

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#89

Or just bolden it.

1 Like
#90

It was planned for a while before this topic was made, but yes it definitely addresses some of this feedback given here.

Any feedback given by developers in this forum category definitely is taken into consideration in any case. Both DevRel and Sages read this category actively and we discuss almost everything mentioned here internally, that’s why it’s so important to give feedback.

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