If you refuse to acknowledge a valid point because you didn’t like the amount of text used to communicate it then you are not arguing in good faith.
This is almost certainly false depending on the demographic you pick, the majority of Roblox players are mobile players, and beyond that the demographic you are talking about on PC tend to play on laptops which don’t have full sized keyboards. You can speculate all day on these things which is why I think it’s not relevant to be making arguments like these for or against my feature request.
The majority of players on the platform do not use a keyboard or a mouse, but that doesn’t mean there is no value in supporting a keyboard/mouse. Your idea that it has to be some majority thing is completely arbitrary and doesn’t make sense, most engine features are not for the majority.
I’ll reiterate that the argument you seem to have been making is fundamentally just very flawed. So far you are against this because you have theorized that people might implement awful input design in a game, and you don’t want that. But that argument can be applied to anything.
My request for Roblox to add support for decades old mouse inputs with widespread support in major software is not invalid because you came up with a hypothetical scenario where for some unspecified reason you can’t play a game because it wants you to have side buttons on your mouse for some reason.
The hypothetical existence of bad design in regards to something is not a reason to have literally no relevant design features for that thing at all whatsoever.
By your logic, Roblox should never have added MeshParts because people can import a cube made of half a million triangles.
Laptop argument, I use a gaming laptop, I have a full sized keyboard plugged into it, because as a developer you need it.
But any mouse buttons over MB3 are useless, when I did have MB4 I just programmed it to be my autoclicker with the included drivers, and anybody else with MB4 has probably done the same.
If a player wants to remap their mouse to have MB4 in your game they can easily do that by mapping a key which your game should have and shouldn’t be based entirely on Mouse keys.
Even if you don’t have a full sized keyboard, you still have Num Lock which acts like a Numberpad if required, your argument is invalid.
And for more complex games, you may need a mouse with 5 buttons, just like how you state that you need a full-sized keyboard as a developer. Obviously, a developer should try to be as inclusive as possible, but they should also be given the option of using more advanced form of input.
They aren’t necessarily ‘useless’, sometimes there aren’t enough keybinds on a mouse to provide easy access to certain common functions and keyboard input may be deemed too slow given you have to find and press down the key. For power users, supporting this as an additional feature would be helpful.
This makes the assumption that the player both knows how to re-map these bindings in their computer settings and is willing to take the effort to do so; which unfortunately isn’t always the case. The convenience would be nice to have over this current workaround.
However, F13 to F15 are also supported, in which the documentation even specifies that they aren’t supported on all keyboards. There are also many other keybinds that Roblox specifies are not supported on all keyboards as listed in the KeyCode documentation. Support on all devices for KeyCodes seemingly hasn’t been an issue in the past, and I doubt it would be now. Also, I wouldn’t say their argument was ‘invalid’ either; they’ve brought up many other valid points as reasons for why this should get supported.
I am genuinely curious, however, is there a reason why this would be a negative feature? I can personally only see a net-gain from adding this functionality? More feature support is nearly always a good thing?
I’m not against supporting MB3 - MB-Infinity, but the way Roblox handles these Enums is very inefficient because you have MB1 - MB9, that’s 9 whole Enums.
Developers should be allowed to ruin their game, but Roblox adding 9 Enums for Mouse Buttons is the wrong approach.
What about chromebooks or the average laptop keyboard? Lots of schools gives these out to students for their work and they probably will use it for Roblox
I understand if you have a full-sized keyboard plugged into a laptop, but some people don’t. Hell, I have a 98% keyboard and I still want to make sure that bindings can be accessible to all users, if I can. It’s not about what you have, it’s about catering to all possible inputs if the player/developer so chooses to have.
Hate to be that guy, but you’re forgetting that most Roblox children probably don’t know this fact if they do have a keyboard without a numpad
I don’t agree, but I think Roblox needs to allow for better support for more advanced inputs that people can have. Maybe not as Enums, but maybe an extension of the InputObject instance. Maybe adding a single Enum.UserInputType.MouseButton with a separation on which button would be a lot better
This is what I can agree with. More Enums may sound good on paper for allowing these other mouse inputs, but there has gotta be better implementations of this on Roblox’s end to better support buttons that are past the lowest-common-denominator
It’s getting off topic with the Mouse Buttons, there should be no reason to add more Enums, they should just renovate the system for Enums which allows us to set MB1600 if I want to without them messing with Enums.
Roblox on chromebooks is not actively supported, nor does it run very well and is a very small minority in devices playing Roblox, even Mac has a larger playerbase.
And Children who don’t know how their keyboard works, they should probably learn how it functions first.
This is necessary and has been necessary for years, I don’t think anyone needs to be told that, I think it’s much more likely that this has just been forgotten about by Roblox.
MB1-MB5 has been the standard for quite some time, and I can think of many games off the top of my head which would benefit from this.
Hilariously enough, Roblox actually already has a “MouseBackButton” written into the engine, but no inputs are actually mapped to it.
We do have working F13-F15 keys, though! I suppose a developer could add support for those in their keybinds system, and then a player could remap their forward and back buttons to F13 and F14, at least then we’d only be half-missing this feature.
Really though, we honestly need a more robust form of handling user inputs in general - we have 95 “World” Keycodes which aren’t mapped to anything in engine. Unfortunately backwards compatibility means that it’s unlikely we’ll ever be getting a reworked input handler.
Again, your argument is invalid as I’ve previously stated on how it can be used as an alternative, quicker variant of another keybind or GUI button for example.
The only time it would lock the functionality per user would be if the developer made that mistake themselves, which is not Roblox’s fault. Again, it’s like a Developer not adding Controller buttons but allowing it to be played on Controller.
Your logic would also apply to controllers being banned, Macro keys, and Function keys.
This is my final reply in response to you. I am not continuing this any further because it has become pretty obvious to me that you are not here for a productive discussion.
I already refuted this multiple times. There are not 9 mouse buttons, there are 5 in total. This is the number of mouse buttons that exist, there are a finite number of them, and there will likely not ever be more of them without completely new standards for input. To my knowledge, no software in existence, no OS in existence currently understands some concept of a 6th mouse button even a little bit, it literally just is not part of the design of any software/hardware/libraries/OS/drivers/etc, it fundamentally just does not exist, there is no path for a 6th mouse button to be supported or added, you simply can’t have a 6th mouse button without everybody suddenly agreeing to come up with some standardized extension to the existing driver/software/hardware. You can slap more programmable buttons on a mouse, you can slap buttons that send numpad key inputs on a mouse, but no software, no mouse, no OS has the concept of an actual 6th mouse button defined in a way that isn’t just re-using some other existing input or combination of inputs.
I will also strongly reiterate once again that the argument that a developer can misuse something can be applied to any feature request and is therefore not on its own a valid argument against the addition of a feature. Your argument that “but what if a game decides to require a 4th/5th mouse button!” is not actually relevant, because any game can decide that it requires you to have a numpad, any game can require you to have a touch screen, any game can require you to have a VR headset, any game can require you to have any combination of obscure or weird inputs. It’s just not a real problem, it’s not a real argument, and it’s not relevant to Roblox literally just not supporting two buttons that have been around for decades that are supported in most major software and are supported in all major operating systems. Button 4/5 have well defined uses and they’re not obscure or weird inputs, they are really common, and not hard to find at all.
You can’t make the argument that you should need a full sized external keyboard, but a mouse with two more buttons that costs the same or less than a mouse without is too much to ask when it’s even less likely to ever even matter or be used in that way. That’s just not reasonable or sensible, it’s a completely bad faith argument.
Like I said, they are pretty common now, even some office mice have them. You can also find them for the same or lower prices as comparable 3 button mice. Google “5 button mice under $10” and you will find tons of results, including mice with various form factors.
Here is a random office mouse with these buttons for example which was one of the first results:
And, my point was that there are not more than 5 mouse buttons so the argument that there are too many mouse buttons and Roblox shouldn’t have to support them all is completely invalid. There are exactly 5 total mouse buttons that are recognized by any software/windows, others have to add their own software or drivers and software would have to integrate with those specific mice to recognize any additional buttons. As far as I know nothing like that exists, they just make the buttons programmable so that they can map to other existing keys or inputs.
Mouse button 4/5 are not just random buttons that just get tacked on like what they do with some programmable mice, they are actual inputs recognized by every operating system and tons of software that have well defined behaviours and they are increasingly more common on mice, do not affect the prices of mice negatively at all, and aren’t obscure or difficult to obtain. All mice with a 4th/5th mouse button that I have seen always put them in the same place, on the left side of the mouse.
There is no reason to not support an input simply because it’s not on every single device that exists. Others have already pointed out how numpads are not on every keyboard either, most laptops don’t have numpads, many keyboards don’t have numpads. The form factor of a keyboard is not something that is consistent across every device and user, and likewise, whether or not you have the 4th/5th button is not consistent either.
These buttons are widely supported and there is no real reason for Roblox to not support them. As I already pointed out a couple times, Windows itself supports these buttons. All modern browsers support these buttons. Even Steam supports these buttons. Why doesn’t Roblox support these buttons?
I wouldn’t refer to a touchpad as a mouse, and single button touchpads often have gestures for right & middle clicks or an option to make the left/right of the touchpad work. Again, the lack of buttons on some devices is not a reason to literally just not support inputs that’ve been around for decades and are widely supported in all other software.
This all seems cool and all but I still have never ever seen a good mouse with these buttons. Ive seen one and it was a mediocre logitech one that came in a 50 dollar Keyboard and mouse set. All of the cheap mice ive seen in stores (you know the ones) STILL have 3 mice buttons. OEM mice, compact wireless mice, laptops, all of these dont have those buttons. F13-15 are supported since they came standard issue on apple keyboards at the time they were added (and even then they wouldnt be added today).
This is the first non-gaming mouse that came up when I looked up “Mouse”
It is still being sold today so it isn’t “old” and is made by Logitech. It took until the 7th non-gaming result for a very very bad looking mouse to have those buttons and almost all of the results that followed didnt have these buttons. You have to go out of your way to get a mouse with them.
This is like asking roblox to add support for stream decks since you can get them for cheap. It could be cool but barely anybody has them.
Remember: You are a power user! You are the minority! Just because YOU have a fancy mouse does not mean the average person does! Nobody in my family uses mice with extra buttons, and they are the average computer user which a kid would use the computer of.
Gaming mice suck. I said “good” mice (not even that good, just better than those pieces of crap passed on because “good at gaming!!!”)
Every gaming mouse I have used has felt clumsy to use, and hasnt fit my hand well.
plus “gamers” are still a minority when it comes to roblox players, its majority sticky ipad kids using their parents 12 year old office desktop
Your personal prefrence in mice doesn’t reflect everyone else’s. That being said, which gaming mice have you tried, if you don’t mind me asking ofc.
You don’t need a good desktop to have a mouse with side buttons. It’s very common to have these side buttons even on an ordinary non-gaming mouse lol. Games with around the same playerbase have this feature (common examples being but not limited to: Fortnite, Minecraft, Valorant, Terraria, Overwatch),
They are very useful in games where you are stuck with a limited number of keys close to WASD. You can for instance, bind MB4 to 0 and MB5 to 1, and use those keys for non primary attacks that you don’t need to reach for mid-fight etc.
They are better off used as things developers can add for keybinds rather than actual default keybinds though, but what if a developer wants to add more features without enough buttons?
I find this to be a bad take even though I’m too lazy to elaborate further
This is the problem the topic aims to prevent, why should I have to remap a key to a different button every time I play Roblox and map it back in my mouse’s website software when I go play something else.
As I’ve pointed out previously only certain very specific non-gaming mice have this feature. The included peripherals of almost all office computers do not have these (and most people don’t buy new ones). How do I know this? I’ve seen businesses using the new OEM OptiPlex stuff and upgraded purchase seperately, I have the 2016 OptiPlex OEM mouse laying around as it came with my desktop, my parents have also bought the “upgraded” (they feel worse imo) oem keyboards and mice for a laptop and a desktop. None (0) of them have the extra mouse buttons. And again, most people use the same peripherals until they break and laser mice don’t just break. People I know (even people who use their computer primarily for gaming) still use their crusty musty mice from 12 years ago unless it broke (why my parents even bought new sets, a new computer and one broke)
One thing I agree with. Im not saying roblox is trying to force me to buy a full-sized keyboard for using the Print Screen button in they controls since my macbook doesn’t have that key or since my 68% keyboard has that behind an FN control.
