Basic User tag/identifier on posts

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#1

I keep seeing suggestions for Basic Users to post in categories that they are unable to post in. People forget that Basic Users exist and think everyone has the same permissions.

An easy fix for this would be to show when someone is a basic user (clearly and easily – next to their name on posts) so that Members (and anyone else) will only give useful suggestions for their membership status.

I am aware that it’s possible to check membership status by opening their profile. This takes too much time and, as evident by existing behavior, does not accomplish what this suggestion looks to achieve.

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#2

Yes please.

I just critiqued a post from a basic user, turns out they couldn’t even do the stuff I suggested.

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#3

Worth noting that after checking existing guidelines, I see that we should not be correcting forum-related behavior of Basic Users – that’s the job of Top Contributors.

(and the rest of that paragraph)

I could come up with a few criticisms towards this, but the criticisms do not make a very strong point so I’ll leave them out.

Another – and perhaps better – solution, is to figure out what mistakes Basic Users make often and put notices about these in post templates.

For example, in the support categories, it would help to say, “If you are a Basic User and have a bug report, send a message to <link to top contributors group dm>.” This is more useful as a template than a pinned post would be, as a lot of people naturally skip over pinned posts, especially when joining a new forum that has dozens of pinned posts. A template will be in-your-face when you try to make a bug report in the wrong category.

While the guidelines say not to redirect Basic Users, clearly not everyone is aware of or follows those guidelines. A Basic User identifier will cut down on the “redirecting Basic Users” behavior for the Members that are not aware of or are not following the guidelines.

Additionally, some Members are not aware that “Basic User” even exists. An identifier would make this clear to all Members who do not keep up with the latest devforum news.

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#4

There are a few things we would like to do that address some issues mentioned here:

  • Renaming the basic user role so that it is more descriptive of what they actually are, and because “basic user” is an inherently derogatory term.
  • Creating a new pinned post that has concise information about what basic users are and explaining what they should do in certain situations (such as posting a bug report, right now that information is buried in the rules which not everybody reads).
  • Modifying templates in several categories to be more descriptive and less easily avoided. (even full members often ignore the bug report format, among formats in other categories)

I think it also might make sense to display in a more direct way who is a basic user and who is not, as you suggest here. One thing we have to watch out for is that we don’t create too much of a bias of credibility against basic users’ posts because they have a tag on their posts. I think it may be better to show this on the user card that pops up when you click someone’s username / profile picture.

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#5

The last few waves of DevForum members (basic and “member”) have been mostly basic. These laughably non-existent perms prevent us from conversing with critical parts of the forum, such as commenting or posting bug reports. Giving us a different role indicating our subjective low experience on the platform by is enough, but we’re not dumb unless they’re reviewing applications wrong. If Roblox wants us to eventually become full on members, I see no problem in at least letting us view the topics so we can DM the OPs if they really think we’re incapable of leveling with standard members. I’m not trying to assert my knowledge on the subject, and if anyone has any objections to anything I’ve said, please let me know. Please tell me there is a reason I don’t see explaining the lack of perms.

On the subject of basic user tags, unless discourse has a feature for that, I don’t think that’s possible.

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#6

Discourse has a ton of features that can be toggled on/off. There are several ways in which we can make it easier to see who is basic user and who isn’t, that’s no issue.

I think it’s a shame some people think this way about basic users and it’s something we want to rectify by providing more information and making sure basic users are aware of the routines we have on this forum (i.e. correct subcategories and not circumventing permissions on accident).

The goal of the separate role is to ease people into the behaviour and attitude that we expect of forum members. Think of it as “early access” to the developer forum rather than thinking basic users are somehow less valuable to the forum, because they’re not.

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#7

You should really reduce the “early access” period, 6 months is too long. 3 months would be better, that way we basic users added in November could be real members already in February.

Or you could make it so that members can nominate basic users to become full members (or maybe this already exists?)

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#8

Full Members can already nominate Basic Users and Non-Members. They have a Nomination thread that is all about that kind of thing. It’s also why Basic Users are locked out of the lounge, which is really more of a chill care-free sort of place, but it also has the Nominations thread, so they don’t want us Basic Bois being able to see it/being able to use it. But yes, it’s very agreeable by many people that the wait you have to do just to be able to re-apply for full membership is too long. (Yeah, if you didn’t know, at the end of 6 months, we don’t get automatically added to full membership. We have to apply and get accepted…)

@buildthomas Yeah, there really is a lot of mis-information, and it’s difficult to allow for Basic Users and Members a like to understand what is allowed and isn’t allowed. Like for example, I was chatting with a staff member via DMs about allowing Basic Users to provide feedback about Feature Requests to a Member that is apart of said Feature Request section, of which I was told that’s allowed. I was then asked for feedback about some rulings on Basic Users, and suddenly it had been switched to being worded that only Bug Reports from Basic Users could be posted, and they had to be by Top Contributors (which puts a lot of work on the two brave souls that take up that duty) Idk. Just feels like Basic Users are harshly restricted for no reason other than to “make sure the DevForum is still an exclusive place” rather than as a teaching tool to teach users to be active members of the community. There are plenty of people with membership privileges who are vastly inactive, and I’d love to take their place in discussions!

@Kiansjet1 A Basic User tag could be very similar to the Staff/Top Contributor Tags. And maybe in addition, to not leave members left out, give them a Member tag as well. Idk. Just a thought.

@Corecii I corrected a Basic User’s mistake, and then guided them in the right direction, and instead of being told I shouldn’t do that, the staff member that subsequently closed the thread left into DevSupport that shouldn’t be in DevSupport gifted me by making my answer the solution…

Personally I believe the templates of what to post in where should be in the text box of the post you’re trying to make, ya know, like how the text box here has “Type here Use markdown…” blah blah blah.

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#9

i personaly Think the basic user is pretty bad. It took me around 2-3 weeks to understand why i couldnt comment on the announcements. I Think its just confusing. I would rather see that basic users can comment on every post, Im not saying that we should remove the rank, but that it should be easier to communicate when your in it.

#10

The reason Upcoming Developers (formerly Basic User) can’t comment on the announcements is that we’re seen as “less matured” members of the community; some of which can’t be trusted to reply to posts that anyone who comes across the devforums can read and view.

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#11

I can understand that.

#12

Why would some members be accepted if they can’t be trusted to be mature enough to contribute?

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#13

It’s not a total exclusion though… feels more like proactive approach to regulating content quality…

#14

It’s exactly this, it’s to prevent lower quality posts from newer and (possibly) less experienced developers.

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#15

The default thought on someone isn’t that they aren’t mature enough. Anyone who gets accepted, even as new member trust level, is seen as mature enough to join. Despite this, no matter how hard developer relations tries, some unwanted behavior will slip through. This is one of the reasons the new member trust level exists.

Having it doesn’t mean you’re not trusted. It’s precaution.

#16

I don’t think this is necessarily true.

It’s not that the Upcoming Developer level states that a user is or is not mature enough. Rather, the Upcoming Developer rank states, “it is unknown if this user is mature enough.” That is not the same as stating “this user is not mature enough” or “this user is mature enough”. The whole reason a user has the Upcoming Developer rank is because they might be mature enough, but it is unknown.

The Member rank, on the other hand, does state a belief about the user’s maturity level. It states, “this user is mature enough.”

The Upcoming Developer level actually states the belief, “this user is likely mature enough or can become mature enough through interaction,” but that’s too complex to explain right away and much easier to understand after the previous explanation.

Your implication seems to be that all Upcoming Developers deserve to be able to comment or see more, as they must be mature enough if they were accepted at all.

Your threshold of acceptance is at the wrong level. Roblox does not trust Upcoming Developers entirely, and Roblox has not fully accepted Upcoming Developers as members. Upcoming Developers is a trial rank given to users who Roblox does not know the maturity level of.

The level at which Roblox trusts users enough to contribute to all parts of the Developer Forums is the Member trust level.

The Upcoming Developer trust level has a few purposes:

  1. Figure out if a user is actually mature enough for the developer forums. Their existing behavior may not be the same as their behavior would be on the Developer Forums.
  2. Figure out if a user is trustworthy enough to see private topics.
  3. Teach users how to submit good content to the Developer Forums.
  4. Give users who are otherwise untrusted a place to ask questions and get answers.

The alternatives to the Upcoming Developer trust level are:

  • Accept developers with low maturity levels, bad posting habits, and who are untrustworthy. This will result in the Developer Forums being both private and low quality. Additionally, it will result in private information and topics being leaked even more than they already have been in the past.
  • Don’t accept very many developers. This will result in fewer Roblox developers, fewer forum participants, and less help to those who need it.

Neither of those are good options.

It’s important that upcoming Roblox developers have a place to ask questions that will give mature answers. It’s important that we give upcoming Roblox developers a place to curate their posting habits to fit a mature community. It’s important that we don’t allow immature and untrustworthy users into the Developer Forums, and that the Developer Forums stays mature, friendly, and private where needed.

The Upcoming Developer trust level accomplishes all of these things.

#17

Good post all around, one question.

Figure out if a user is actually mature enough for the developer forums. Their existing behavior may not be the same as their behavior would be on the Developer Forums.

Is this in reference to the old Roblox forums? I have a lot of edgy garbage that I said in the past when those were still up, did that have an effect on my ranking?

#18

I don’t actually know; I don’t work on any sort of acceptance team or anything. Just another developer forums user. I’ll quote the New Member Program FAQ here:

It sounds like the biggest determiner is the quality of your application. It’s possible that they generally take your existing behavior into account, but if they do then they haven’t said so. I do know that users that are known to scam, exploit, or be rude to Roblox staff are generally not accepted in, even as a trial user.

#19

No. Bad behavior on the site may cause someone’s application to be declined, but otherwise it has no impact on the roleset you receive when you join.

The new member roleset has less to do with bad apples getting in, and more so making sure members use the forums correctly. Someone who has only been developing for a year or two might think “Roblox you should implement this feature” is a good feature request, but someone who is more familiar with user feedback because they have more work under their belt would likely know they need to be more specific.

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