“SystemMenu’s menu bar is trivial and mostly clutter”
Only because it wasn’t updated with shortcuts to new features as time went on.
“You wouldn’t need multiple rows if SystemMenu didn’t clutter your toolbars with buttons you never use”
Having more than one row allows me to organize my buttons better. I’d really like the ability to just have one row for important stuff and another for less used stuff. Just because I only use the terrain tool sometimes doesn’t mean it should be more than one click away.
“Same story with RibbonBar”
Cool dividers bro. As in there aren’t any. Have fun having trouble to quickly identify groups of icons without visual cues. UXGuide says: “Organize the commands within a toolbar into related groups”. This can’t be done right now. It should be a feature.
“You can collapse the tabs so they don’t take up any screen space”
This changes nothing.
“If you didn’t use an obsolete OS / theme this wouldn’t be a problem ;)”
You’re in no position to reject the best practice of respecting the OS’ theme.
Enjoy using the Unreal Editor 4 in 2016, on Windows 10. Looks great right? Blends right into that wonderful Metro + Modern + leftover Aero + leftover XP blind bag Microsoft prepared for you. Wouldn’t look better at all if it just used the system theme instead, right?
“what you’re spouting is nonconstructive, anti-change rambling.”
You do realize you posted a screencap of you trying your hardest to build a janky SystemMenu surrogate within a Quick Access toolbar, right? Is that really the kind of change you want?
SystemMenu is easier to use over long periods of time because the changes you make last longer than a week. With Ribbon, any time studio updates, your changes vanish into the ether. Roblox has a principle of making turnkey systems, and using max’s tool is quite removed from that ideal.
Ribbon customizations are local to each version and standalone version. With SystemMenu, theres… How to word it… A unified aesthetic across all ~platforms~ studio instances. Ribbon doesn’t have that.
With SystemMenu, you can edit the layout however you want simply by clicking and dragging. With RibbonBar you have to look at all the XML and try to reverse engineer it so that you can get even a fascimile of what you want. Where is the documentation? Where is the editor?
Aside from familiarity with my work flow, these are my reasons for not switching to Ribbon.
https://yourlogicalfallacyis.com/false-cause
There are countless programs whose UI differs from the OS’s (Slack, Spotify, Google Chrome, Photoshop, etc) that don’t look bad. Using the OS’s theme for your program has nothing to do with whether an interface looks good or not. And using the system’s UI is not “best practice”. Look at any program renowned for its usability or interface and chances are it doesn’t use the system interface. Out of all the programs on my computer, only those made by Microsoft do.
Why is this a bad thing? And yes this is the kind of change I want. RibbonBar allows comfortable use of Studio for both SystemMenu and ribbon users. SystemMenu only accommodates the former. Why in the world would we prefer to support something that only accomplishes part of what the other does?
You’re right. SystemMenu has a lot of weaknesses because it hasn’t been updated. Missing features like a dropdown for selecting how many players per test server and mobile emulation aren’t the only issues either:
I can’t toggle individual buttons in SystemMenu. I either have to have all the surface buttons enabled, or none of them. RibbonBar allows me to have just the ones I need.
SystemMenu does not allow me to hide things I don’t need until I do need them, while RibbonBar supports this through tabs that can be switched between and collapsed/expanded
Some of the SystemMenu icons are low-quality and reflect poorly on the overall aesthetic of Studio
And given that I haven’t used SystemMenu in about a year I’m probably leaving out even more. Both RibbonBar and SystemMenu have their own respective weaknesses, and need to be improved. The question is with the same amount of time put into each, which would end up as the better layout? With RibbonBar’s flaws corrected, there’d be no reason to use SystemMenu. With SystemMenu brought up to speed with new features, we would still need RibbonBar. The obvious conclusion is that RibbonBar should be worked on instead of SystemMenu. Note that I do not agree with ROBLOX’s decision to drop support before resolving the issues with RibbonBar, but when it comes down to which of the two should be supported, RibbonBar is the answer.
In all fairness, I am willing to get in and give ribbon a shot (after massive modifications) but I’m still waiting for my crashes to get resolved since the last update, apparently I’m not the only one and I can’t even install ROBLOX anymore.
That’s a website, an app designed for iOS/OSX that had really bad dpi issues on Windows, a browser that tries to be its own OS and a program that’s actually notoriously bad UI-wise, to the point of using Flash-powered panels for whatever.
You know, unlike foobar, hammer, vlc, sharex, winrar, inkscape, notepad++, OBS, qbittorrent, everything, libreoffice, irfanview, handbrake, mp3tag, windirstat, mumble, hexchat, sumatrapdf, 7zip, gimp, grabber, paint.net a little, etc. (Also, no level editor or IDE uses the Ribbon.)
All I’m seeing is ex-SystemMenu users desperately playing dress up with their Quick Access bar. Sad!
Of course we wouldn’t need SystemMenu if we had a feature-complete replica that doesn’t introduce any new bugs living inside of the RibbonBar with no side effects, which by the way is exactly what I want. But we also wouldn’t need RibbonBar if we had a one living inside of SystemMenu. The real question is which of the THREE should be supported, my answer to that is the Legacy UI. After all, ribbon tabs are just less convenient palette windows you can’t undock.
Personally I think the Legacy UI may be great for certain power users, but I can’t imagine it’s the most appealing or user-friendly of the three especially to new/young people.
Also I personally would be very frustrated if I had to use Legacy UI instead of Ribbon Bar, and I consider myself to be a power user, so you can see how opinionated these things can get.
My question is, was the effective removal of SystemMenu on purpose or on accident? It would be simply wonderful if the problems with ribon were fixed before everyone was forced to use it.
now I’m forced to move to the ribbon bar I think why most people who use the system menu (like me) use it for the convenience of having that button right in front of you without clicking through tabs to find it.
You understand that this thread is here to listen to complaints and feedback so the staff can understand why some people haven’t switched right? It’s not the “Stop complaining and just do this already” thread.
Not all feedback is useful. Namely, complaining about something which ROBLOX already designed and implemented a solution for. If you have a problem with that solution then by all means suggest improvements, but that’s not the case here.
I didn’t even know they had a quick access bar for me to namely place what I want for my convenience until I switched. I think aside from that I’d like to have been able to move it around and add breakers.
My only complaint besides that is I feel like I still want to have the ability to make custom tab groups that suite my workflow and that might solve a lot of issues people seem to have. I’m also not a fan of button size, I might try to cut it by 1/4th.
kni0002 left his feedback, and so did a number of other people. Regardless of whether or not YOU think it’s helpful or useful is irrelevant, it’s still some form of feedback. It’s clear people don’t have the same concept of worth that you do for the quick access menu, and that’s an issue that can be extrapolated from the feedback and complaints given so far.
Telling people to stop complaining and use a feature isn’t adding anything constructive to the purpose of this thread, it’s just making it a hostile place for people to voice their opinions.
If that was the case then they’d complain about why the Quick Access Menu doesn’t work for them, but that’s not what the posts you’ve pointed to mention. A large number of people are switching to RibbonBar for the first time, and are complaining about the tabs – not the QAM. This is likely because they don’t even know that the QAM exists and haven’t tried it. As I mentioned, if someone doesn’t have the same concept of worth for the QAM as I do, they are more than welcome to voice their opinion on how it could be improved. On the other hand, they have no right to complain about the tabs until they at least try out the potential solution already provided for that.
How are people supposed to give feedback on a feature if the feature is so tucked away that they have no clue it exists? That right there is reason enough to complain about studio UX, let alone complain about the quick access menu.
It’s not totally unreasonable to deduce that people who switched and are complaining about ribbon workflow because they’re trying to use it out of the box, just like how system menu worked. The quick access menu isn’t loaded with all your plugins and buttons out of the box, and I’ll bet 90% of users aren’t delusional enough to fill it up like system menu, they’d rather just go use system menu, which is an already mentioned UX issue with ribbon bar.
Everyone has a right to complain about the problems they have with switching, there is a clear problem with ribbon UX where people can’t find and of the power users features that make it workable. None of us have any right to say people can’t complain about UX issues and finding features, it totally defeats the purpose of this thread.
You know what would be nice? An icon resize configuration so we don’t have to edit the XML. Now I’m only saying this cause I feel like it would spare room and also because I installed about 8-9 plugins and I feel like it’s very cramped in Ribbon but I also found myself annoyed with the plugin list in System Mode. This just brings me back to asking for custom tabs so we can combine the regular tools we want with the plugins we want.
which has most of the things I need easily accessible. However, beyond the order of the buttons, I have absolutely no control of how I organize the buttons, and I still have to go into the tabs if there’s functionality I need that isn’t in these buttons. It also doesn’t help that Studio likes to occasionally clear these.
Beyond this, I have two main issues with the Ribbon Bar UI. First off, due to the tab system, in many cases I’m forced to retrieve a tool from sub-menus and different tabs. Something that could easily be a one-click operation in SystemMenu now takes two or three - and I can’t really “put away” that tool temporarily so I can access it again easily afterwards. It’s kind of like putting away my power drill into its box, going across the room and putting it back on the shelf just because I need to use a screwdriver, regardless of whether or not I’ll need the drill again 5 minutes later. It’s incredibly inefficient, and while the customizable button bar makes it somewhat easier to work with RibbonBar, SystemMenu is still more efficient.
Secondly, and I’ve brought this up before, there should be no excuse to make buttons that large. I’m pretty sure we all have the motor skills necessary to move our mouse within a 20x20 something pixel square to select the tool we need. It’s not that small. But a lot of the buttons on ribbon bar are a lot larger than that, and it’s just a sorry waste of screen space that I could be using for something else:
A lot of these buttons could be a lot smaller, and because I never open this menu because of how inexplicably huge it is, I’m unfortunately missing out on a lot of features that would be really useful (for example, this is the first time I realize I can set the rotate and move snaps to custom values, never seen it before because I always close this menu).
In the end, I don’t care which UI style I end up using. All I want is tiny buttons I can organize however I want, and I don’t want to have to go digging in tabs and sub-menus and drop down lists for them. System menu provides that, and the only reason I ended up switching was because system menu is “no longer supported” and was causing me to get an increasingly large amount of studio crashes.
As in there aren’t any. Have fun having trouble to quickly identify groups of icons without visual cues. UXGuide says: “Organize the commands within a toolbar into related groups”. This can’t be done right now. It should be a feature.
now I’m forced to move to the ribbon bar 
