People Are Becoming Way Too Dependent on the Scripting Support Category to a Point Where They Ask for Help Excessively

Forum Help
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#1

Hi everyone,

Not my usual intro of “hey y’all” as this is quite a serious concern. I don’t know how to word this into one sentence, but I’ll try my best: some people who post in the #help-and-feedback:scripting-support category ask for help way too much. This means that for every error they have (whether the output plays a role or not), they start asking questions on how to fix that specific problem once the issue at hand has been resolved. I don’t expect you to understand that right off the bat, so please read my experience:

My Experience

I try to help everyone in all the #help-and-feedback categories, but the main one for me is the Scripting Support section. Over the past few weeks, I’ve solved some issues and bugs there, but there are a couple of cases where the person who posted the topic just chases me around with every single other problem his/her script has afterward. It comes to a point where the problems stray further and further away from what the OP was concerned with.

For example, imagine that a guy needs help with coroutines and I solved the issue. He then adds more into his script, fiddles around with it, and uh oh something breaks. He comes back and replies with the other problem he was having (not related to what the OP was asking). It makes me think that he didn’t even try to solve it himself first and immediately posted it. I think the main problem is that they think that the solution that others give cause more bugs afterwards, which is mostly not true.

But, I have a helpful nature, so I DM him since I don’t want to clutter up the topic. The new problem is fixed and then comes another one. It’s as if that guy is solely relying on me to solve all of his bugs. Disagree with me if you want, but I’m way too passive and don’t have the guts to reject them or even tell them to solve it themselves. But, everyone has a breaking point and I’ve met mine. This is getting way too out of hand. Not only are the replies and DMs getting overly excessive, but the topics themselves. I’ve seen people who ditch their first topic and create a new one for another problem that arises, even if they’ve added only a couple of lines. Here, they did two not good things: posting a very similar/same topic and asking for help without trying themselves. Now, I’d normally post that they already have a similar topic and that for such simple bugs, they need to try it themselves first. But, I don’t feel like repeating that over and over with other people as well.

This also goes hand-in-hand with the issue of people just asking for free scripts. Usually, their topics are literally a sentence long with a closure like “Thanks, [username]”. They usually never get replied to due to their vagueness and their overall nature of approaching it like that. No one benefits from that, and they’re actually hurting themselves by posting such short and overly brief topics.

I understand that some people are just exhausted when they’re programming and make easy mistakes in which they try to solve it but can’t. Then, they post a topic and realize that the solution was so simple. I’m okay with those type of people, but not the ones who ask for help for every single issue.

I mean, come on, you’re not going to learn if you just asking others for help every time. It’s just like memorizing the key presses on a piano of a song without actually learning to read music or play the piano in general. You’re not going to get very far. Your best teacher and mentor is, in the end, yourself.

For some odd reason (which I’m not going to complain about), I’ve only seen this in the Scripting Support category.

Potential Solution(s)

  • Make the descriptions stricter by adding “try to solve the issue first, then post” and “don’t ask for entire scripts, you must have your own first and then ask for help with modifications”. This will effectively deter someone from posting excessively like this.
  • Adding some sort of punishment if the offense is committed repeatedly.
  • More, if you have any, you’re welcome to post.

I admit that was a huge blob of words there, and I really appreciate it if anyone read all that. I also admit that I haven’t clearly written down my thoughts, so if you know what I’m trying to say, please feel free to give a better way of wording the title or specific sections.

So, with that being said, have you also faced this problem? If so, how do you deal with it and what do you see as potential solutions?

32 Likes
Any other languages than Lua shouldn't be supported in scripting-support
#2

Most people don’t even read the rules, so there isn’t a point in doing this. People just post code and they say that there’s something wrong with it, when strictly it says to elaborate and pinpoint your error.

The biggest problem is not this, it’s simply using the search bar. People don’t even know that it exists, which kind of triggers me.

I just want to help people, but people here that are new, including me, started as taking the help here for granted. They post here thinking that they will get a valuable answer, and yes, sometimes they do get it. Sadly, most of the time, well explained answers were not the solution. They spent all of their time and effort, taking about ten minutes making the reply, and bam, it’s not correct, simply because if their vague topic.

Scripting is very hard to learn, but, we’re not teachers, we can’t just give you the answers. The whole point of the scripting category is to help guide you through your problems, not give the answer. mind you, that’s also how school works. Teachers don’t teach by giving you the answer, they guide you through it, making you learn from your own mistakes. People come to the scripting support category with simply a spelling error and sometimes they even argue that there isn’t something wrong with the code, and that you are acting smart by pinpointing a small mistake and people don’t like that.

We guide you through your problems, we don’t give you solutions

Edit:

I also see people in scripting support bumping their thread with them replying to their own post, and sometimes doing it multiple times, until they get a reply.

4 Likes
#3

I strongly agree. Personally, I find the #help-and-feedback:scripting-support category extremely useful, but I always try to solve the problem for around 10-15 minutes before coming to the DevForum. Although I’m a beginner to scripting, 70% of the time I can solve issues on my own after debugging my scripts, checking for additional errors, adding print statements, etc. If that doesn’t work, sometimes I try YouTube or look for other DevForum topics. If that doesn’t help me either, then only do I create a topic and ask for support.

I’ve definitely seen users ask for entire scripts or have very broad questions. I usually give them a friendly warning or ask them to narrow down their question so that I can answer it better. I would agree with @VegetationBush about new users taking the help given to them for granted. Although I’m a new user, I’ve never come across a time where I’d have to ask for an entire script.

I think this is a decent solution, but I think the text should be made to stand out so it’s more noticeable. Better yet-

Adding this in a bold font would also warn the creator of the topic. If this was added to DevForum, it should be posted in #updates so everyone knows about it. I think these solutions would help make the #help-and-feedback:scripting-support category a more productive one.

I’m not sure if this is too much of a solution, but maybe a choice could be added when you flag a topic that says something along the lines of “Excessive Help”. I’m not sure, but I think the two solutions you mentioned will at least address the issue and maybe even help solve it. Thanks for addressing this!

3 Likes
#4

I can agree with this, people becoming dependent upon support rather than solving even attempting to find a solution is definitely a problem.

After being in a support channel a lot on Discord, I’ve helped many with programming problems. However, when they start to rely on you to give them the support they need then it’s time to tell them “No. You have learnt enough to solve this yourself or search it up”.

In a matter of fact, many topics in the support categories can be solved by searching it up directly in a search engine. I feel like this needs to be much more endorsed (rather than just finding DevForum topics).

In addition, maybe there should be a “common debugging” topic to help those who do not know how to properly manage their problems.

5 Likes
#5

This is definitely one of the main issues. Someone explain what the OP did wrong/how to fix it, and give resources, possibly including script snippets. The OP will then try to paste the partial code and then immediately respond with an error. I mean immediately, too fast than to have tried to fix it.

I really hope DevRel will consider making some of these changes.

3 Likes
#6

I agree with this, a lot of users on the Forums are dependent on all of us who are programmers that help them or give them a whole script that will solve their solutions

This is a problem that I’ve been seeing for the past months now, ever since I came back to the Forums from some sort of break.

Enough of these things, people in scripting support have to have some common sense and maybe try fixing the problem before posting it onto the Forums, it kind of wastes our time helping them and relying on us programmer who knows the error or attempt to fix it without tweeting and fix the errors that were put into the script.

Ok, this makes me frustrated, and maybe everyone else on the forums. People who ask for a Whole script for it to be fixed just for a simple error that can take 3-8 minutes to

I like this solution and idea, it will make it easier for programmers to solve the error and not just typing a whole post on how to fix it, how to write it, or some other reason/

I never replied in these categories, don’t have the time to or just busy with a game of mine. :eyes:

In the end, I hope DevRel could make some big changes to the category and hope these people can figure out some stuff instead of asking the community for a whole script.

3 Likes
#7

This is unfortunately just a problem with children, not the way the forum is set up. When they’ve found someone who helps them and they come across another issue, their first instinct is to get more help, not figure it out themselves. All you can really do is remind them to focus on their problem and try to come up with a solution independently.

Kids don’t read the guidelines. Ever.

This would be ideal but it’s been made clear that punishments will almost never be handed out for using the forum incorrectly.

16 Likes
#8

Thank you very much for your reply.

I always thought that since this Forum is 13+ (literally a teenager), people would know better. Also, the sheer number of them doesn’t make the “telling them to try the problem themselves” solution that effective. The member base will grow faster than we can teach how to use the Forum properly, so I don’t really see that it’ll work that well.

Huh, didn’t really know that they never read guidelines. I’d think that being new on the Forum will make them overly cautious in terms of posting. I remember when I joined, I overestimated the professionalism of the website and was very careful when posting something, and I read the guidelines multiple times to follow a specific format and whatnot.

I’d compare this problem with the #resources being flooded with spam and low-quality posts.

It’s quite sad that punishments can’t be given out, because that makes this problem quite unsolvable.

3 Likes
#9

We simply cannot stop people from being too dependent. There can be as many solutions as possible but these people simply won’t care. They will keep posting. This isn’t only an issue on the forums. Many newer scripters learn through youtube videos and since usually they just give you code without really explaining it they “learn” that way. This can be proved by going to the comments of any scripting video and you will see requests in the comments that are way too specific.

Their last resort seems to be this forum so they ask here.

3 Likes
#10

I agree, people are relying on the scripting support category way to much now and go there for every small issue with their code expecting the answer to be spoon fed to them. It is annoying when people ask for help fixing their code when they clearly haven’t attempted to bug fix or proof read it. For example, I see many people saying their script doesn’t work when it has red lines under parts of the code, multiple errors, ends missing and multiple typos. Spending 5 minutes bug fixing and proof reading could easily solve all these problems and save the effort of making a new topic.

I think the problem here is that people don’t bother searching or attempting to find the solution themselves because it is quicker and easier to ask for the answer. It is clear people don’t bother searching because at one point we had the common “how do I learn to script” question pop up almost on a daily basis and basically still do. We also get many topics asking similar questions that could have easily been answered by searching.

Whenever I have bugs or questions I always spend a good amount of time trying to bug fix my code and searching for the answer. I have found searching and bug fixing on your own actually helps improve your problem solving skills and actually teaches you a lot at the same time.

I agree, people seem to be going to the scripting support category hoping entire systems will be designed and coded for them with minimal information given. When really this is the wrong approach to take because these topics either end up getting bloated with low-quality replies or never actually reaching a solution because no one replies. This is because they are asking a very broad question or only want the script to be given to them.

Instead of asking for help making an entire system or for free scripts try and make the script yourself and then ask specific questions when you get stuck.

I think the scripting support category will never have the quality it once did because we can’t stop people from posting low-quality or depending on the category. If multiple warning and guidelines are put in place people will just ignore them. In the past I have attempted DMing people about their posting quality and they always end up ignoring me.

2 Likes
#11

Imo spoonfeeding is okay as long as someone learns from something.
There are definitely some people who post few threads a day and scream for help, and I think they shouldn’t be helped since it might solve their issue, but they won’t learn anything from it and will come back for more.

3 Likes
#12

I totally agree with this, people who need help should do some trial and error, not just be spoonfed by an experienced developer. They ain’t learning much by asking for solutions 24/7.

2 Likes
#13

I agree with your point but there’s no way to actually confirm your age on the forums as it’s pretty much a website scroll and you’re in.

I praise you for your patience and definitely link them to the developer hub if they’ve still got more issues or tell them ‘sorry but I’m currently busy; there’s resources on the hub’. also again, this almost always clutters up topics that’s why they’ve mostly got over 10 replies between the same people.

2 Likes
#14

I can agree with this. I’ve seen more topics now where people just ask for the entire code instead of actually trying to solve it by themselves, there are many tutorials online already and I see little to no problem by searching.

I’ve seen that happen at least 6 times, somebody replies with a solution, but then they chose to ‘try’ and fix it by themselves and then that adds more questions and errors.

I have seen this a lot, even with an error where it says that they had an function and it needed a ‘)’ they will inmediately go to the DevForum instead of trying to solve the error by themselves.

That would work only if kids were actually honest with their age and not just signup with an age by 1920.

I disagree with this as people would just continue if the response is a feedback and not an strike.
Plus they would ignore the message.

Honestly, I have seen many stupid uses of many topics e.g #resources:community-resources.
They should be more strict when it’s to creating topics or else we will see many 1 line topics where their description is “I don’t know how to script a part that changes color, give me entire script, thank you” or their script was just poorly made so they had a reason to post it, e.g:

part = game.Workspace.Part
part.Color = Red
6 Likes
#15

I think the issue could be partially put onto people helping others because I will see someone ask for help and another user on the DevForum will give them the entire script flawless and completed when what I believe they should do is help them UNDERSTAND the concept instead of just giving them the code because it would be much more beneficial and if they can’t get what your saying then a link to another source who covers the topic could also work.

1 Like
#17

After it gets too out of hand (>50 replies), I just tell people to create a new thread for the problem(s) they’re facing, because this way the public can benefit too.

The punishment idea would be good, but it’s not to say anyone would take them seriously.

Another thing I noticed is that if you don’t provide code that fully works, some people just pretend your reply was never there.

1 Like
#18

This is a problem too :confused:

Because the OP doesn’t understand something, they will ask and you answer, only for them to ask about your answer, for you to answer again, and it’s just a circle.

2 Likes
#19

I notice that a lot while browsing the #help-and-feedback:scripting-support category in the past while helping others. There were some cases that they made simple errors that they did not notice. I tried my best to simplify it as much as I can so they can at least understand.

I do agree that some people were becoming overly dependent on that category, especially when they never bother to figure out whether or not it’s a simple typo, which it does happen. I really hope that new developers don’t rely on the #help-and-feedback:scripting-support category a lot just for the sake of working scripts and not actually learning what’s involved.

1 Like
#20

By your post I might be a minority but I use google and look up my problem first then I go in the forums and look it up if I don’t find it I post and then I wait a day because it usually takes that long or longer and then I would see if solution works or if they have questions of my script.

Honestly think of it like this is a 12 year old going to be dependent. Now here’s the other part is that they grow up for one more year(13+). Are they a independent learner all the sudden. I would think not and I know for sure I wasn’t heck I wasn’t a independent learner till I was 16 and not all people that teach them will teach them to be independent.
It’s a thing that they need to be taught so I think having a Dev hub section for reading errors and how to debug them.

Some 13 year olds might be a independent learner but some require a person that they can talk to to learn from, Like a mentor in a way or some nice person that will help them out in a issue.

I would suggest that there should be a tutorial that teaches you how to debug independently and when to post in #help-and-feedback.
Heck I would like to see a tutorial for debugging because I don’t find much resources for it unless your a good scripter already Wich might make people confused. A way to reporting them wouldn’t help the situation really but make them quit. Having a report button for over use of a thread can be used against people that aren’t also or other people that are trying to get help but it’s just a big post they have.

2 Likes
#21

I can agree, there are people that just are to lazy to try themselves to resolve a specific problem, and just ask for full scripts or models. And there is one thing that makes me kind of feel pain posts with the title kind of like this: “how do i make a car like the Jailbreak one” . And most of the people who make these posts don’t even go and research their subject/problem a little or try to figure it out on their own, they just wan’t people to make a full script for them for no payment, and if someone tells them that Its not okay, to do that they just become rude on the post, and there is a huge difference about Scripters or people who wan’t to learn and people who are just lazy, the people who wan’t to learn they atleast learn from the solution given to them or found out and just play with the code try out new things and learn to become better, someone that wouldn’t have that motivation and is lazy would just take the code and put it in their game without trying anything or realizing that developers take their time to resolve a problem and for no payment.

1 Like