I don’t really use plugins either. It’s an anecdote. An example of the way that they aren’t developers. It’s used to support my claim. Why do so many people take it so very seriously?
What am I arguing for? The 35% of people that agree with me.
I might be misunderstanding, you are saying if you don’t use plugins you aren’t a developer?
And I am not sure why you want manual acceptance, when the automatic process is the reason you are in the forum, it is the same reason I am in the forums as well, as well as many others. Without this process you wouldn’t be making this topic, and without the process I wouldn’t be replying to this topic. Imagine how future users will feel
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It doesn’t matter whether you use plugins or you’re aware of them or you can count to ten. At the end of the day it matters that the forum is a place where you can reach out to help, regardless of skill level. If somebody gives a wrong answer, you correct it - you help them. The forum doesn’t need to measure your IQ or place a number on your knowledge as a requirement. It’s not hurting anybody, so don’t make it.
Knowledge shouldn’t be measured here. Everyone has something to contribute and everyone has something to learn.
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Are you suggesting that you and I aren’t good enough developers to make it on here? I said it wouldn’t be as difficult. I don’t even care if it stays automatic at this point, but it needs to be made harder.
Yes it should. We should not have people who have never developed on here because they have absolutely nothing to contribute, and they can learn without being TL1.
I don’t really agreeeeeee with you, I wouldn’t make it manual but certainly I feel like you would have to show some work before getting in. It would still be automated.
Also most people here got in since they made it open. (And i like it) I just don’t like how anyone can join as long as they stayed a bit. I feel like you would have to show development work on Roblox Studio or something similar.
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Ultimately this thread comes down to a difference in what the DevForums is and what it represents to you. There’s a summary at the end.
Do you want the forums to be “professional” and “elite” or open and “not professional”? Your views will drastically change how you’ll respond.
For the avoidance of doubt, I arrived the same day as a regular when upcoming developer was introduced. I’ve operated here on the forums for quite some time and have worked on some internal Roblox program related to here. My overall view on the problem is that there is a mix of factors and groups at hand which causes this issue and a middle approach between both sides should be met to minimise issues.
Despite what anyone can ever say “manual acceptable” does not scale and must not be done, unless you change what you want to be automated in some form. I know personally that it isn’t. The resources required does not help the actual issue at hand, solve the fundamental issues, nor change what I suspect what people really want.
These views from people here correlate with a similar misunderstanding that plagues both the “OG Roblox” viewpoint and similar lookback to an older time, nostalgia blinds your viewpoint, you remember the good times not the bad times. There was critical issues with manual acceptable from long waiting times to wildly ranging views on what should be accepted. Even at the smaller scale the DevForums was both pre and post introduction of “Upcoming Developer” now member.
There is much the forums can do to improve and we’ve seen some of this in recent rules changes but more can be done. It should be about introducing people in a way which educates them about some of the basics of how to use the forums to understanding some of the basic knowledge (often people forget that people don’t know that) to understand what to do and where to look for best guidance.
I’ve spoken about ideas for improving the forum’s ethos in previous responses to the forums. Some examples include: 348530#43, 537252#7, 727979#31, 845848#25, and 497180. Ultimately there are things to be done but it’ll take time and correct persuasion to the right people (DET) to make anything really happen. Ironically one of my previous quotes pretty well cover this thread
If you want change, you need to make it work for the people at the end and get them to agree in the right way. point 3 of being able to shut up still rings true today.
If there is anything I want people to think of and to summarise how I feel, it’s how hostility can damage beyond repair. I hate asking on StackOverflow from the hostility I got, just my feelings even I was not fully correct. I don’t want that here.
I’d like to ask you to read an essay and some policies from Wikipedia, they offer how they as a community react to a very similar kind of issue that exists. WP:NEWBIES (second in the list) is a good first look.
Wikipedia:Avoiding difficult users - Wikipedia Wikipedia:Please do not bite the newcomers - Wikipedia Wikipedia:Etiquette - Wikipedia Wikipedia:Assume good faith - Wikipedia Wikipedia:Civility - Wikipedia
EDIT: By developer I mean…
Someone who had/has created UGC on the Roblox platform
That is it. No matter what kind of thing it is, as long as it is a creation that was created/generated by an user, it’s UGC and that creator is a developer. Skill and experience does not matter.
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So if I understand correctly:
- You don’t want manual acceptance
- We should be polite to newcomers
- Something does need changed about acceptance though
I have no problem with new users at all. My problem is the fact that literally anyone can get on here. If a new user is a developer, I’m fine with it.
I’m not a fan of hyper simplifying what I said, if you would like to whittle my entire argument into some bullet points, these are
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This entire thread is a debate of two differing viewpoints on what the forums is
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Manual acceptable by definition does not scale and must not be used. Original implementation had issues
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Nostalgia blinds people and people forget to account for that.
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Things have changed, education and introductions are important for the forums
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I have previously suggested and responded to changes (see the examples I linked)
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You and the thread need to persuade the right people (see my quote for the details)
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I dislike asking questions on StackOverflow because of the hostility I had
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I offered examples from Wikipedia on how they as a community has reacted to a similar issue.
You can try to offer a juxtaposition of concepts to express your viewpoint. I made my overall view clear from my post, if you would like to debate my opinions I highly suggest taking my actual reply and retort based on that. See this highlighted version of that overall view.
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If your a builder on Roblox then you would be accepted by to building. The example of local was just trying to say that the literal basics of whatever they do should be known not non coders coming in here just to clog the forum up.
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You can still access DevForum without an acceptance. What we want is people who know nothing about developing to not be on the forum making posts and commenting. We DO want them to be in the forum learning things but you don’t need an account for that.
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When you say “developer”, what do you mean? What makes someone one?
See the minor edit at the bottom of #154 for my personal defintion.
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Defintion according to Techopedia.com
Definition - What does Developer mean?
A developer is an individual that builds and create software and applications. He or she writes, debugs and executes the source code of a software application.A developer is also known as a software developer, computer programmer, programmer, software coder or software engineer.
Techopedia explains Developer
A developer is the key individual behind all software applications. Generally, developers are well versed in at least one programming language and proficient in the art of structuring and developing software code for software or a program. Depending on job role and type of software developed, a developer may be classified as a software developer, application developer, mobile developer, Web developer, etc.Although the primary job role is writing code, a developer also may gather requirements for software, design or overall software architecture, software documentation and other related software development processes.
So just programmers? So only programmers should use the forums? No builders, artists, translators, UI artists, etc.?
Are you confident in that definition given your previous remarks?
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A developer is someone who is actively or has previously work(ed) on a concept of Roblox development (building, scripting, UI, art…) for the purpose of pleasure or profit, and did not directly take free models in the process of that. For scripting and building, they must work/look better than 4 blocks welded together.
@RobloxTitan4223: I don’t think that definition works for Roblox.
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No it says someone who builds or creates software. In the scenario of Roblox they would be making Roblox games are plugins or just creating something that can be used and isn’t a free model.
Oh, I see your confusion.
It’s:
(builds or creates) software.
NOT:
(builds) or (creates software)
Okay cool, good insight to be aware of. Just one clarification, when you say…
What about those who use free models in a transformative use or use open source products (since they’re also free models)
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I’d call that indirectly using them, which is fine. Lots of developers use free models to make new things.
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What if the user has no ID? Then how would they get accepted?
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That could be a violation against roblox, since under 18s can’t really share personal information, without consent of guardian. What will happen if that data collected gets leaked? Also what about IDs of different countries? There 193 countries, and in the country, there are different jurisdictions, I’m sure you can’t expect roblox to mug up 193+ ID symbols.