Make DevForum acceptance manual

[Dev_Carlitox (lit)]

@Ty_IsHomeSchooled

Unfortunately in the past few months, multiple trolls and spammers are being accepted in. They likely don’t know what local means, or don’t know what DevEx is.

Are you saying that someone who wants to be a builder must know everything about programming?

[Water_Script]

While YouTuve and the Dev Hub are great resources, I found the DevForum to be one of the best resources. For someone who started learning Lua, having free access to the DevForum without having to apply helped tremendously in the process as there were people asking similar questions to the ones I had. While the DevForum is for developers, it is also such a great place for those just starting out or that are interested in the various forms of development on Roblox.

[dibblydubblydoo (poo)]

What classifies you as a developer? What does developer mean? You’re saying you need to be a developer before you join the forum but you aren’t explaining how to become one and the meaning.

[blitzahon (NowYouSeeMeToo)]

@Ty_IsHomeSchooled

“They likely don’t know how to download a plugin…”

That’s a weak argument which isn’t supported by examples. And that’s not even a valid statement on ‘Why DevForum should be manual acceptance.’

@Ty_IsHomeSchooled

We need change now. We need manual acceptance. This will absolutely improve my experience using this forum as a professional resource.

You’re not trying to say why we need a change. You just proposed the solution, but you don’t give any use cases to why we need it.

@Ty_IsHomeSchooled

In the past 30 minutes I’ve seen about 3-4 make that 5 spam posts in various categories

Maybe spam, but not as worse as you claim. Believe it or not, even if manual acceptance was enabled, there would still be spam posts.

@Ty_IsHomeSchooled

As a Roblox developer, it is currently too hard to browse what was once the professional and elite DevForum

Why you want DevForum to be elite? Really bad idea, it will become like a social status rather than a resource place.

@Ty_IsHomeSchooled

using alts to sneak in and spam absolute trash all over the forum.

Again, a weak argument without examples.

@LucasTutoriaisSaimo

Even if you’re an builder only you should know what are variables.

Why do you think a builder will want to learn what variables are when the main job is building? I would like to remind you there are people who are not programmers or something.

[5bind (spy)]

@Ty_IsHomeSchooled

As a Roblox developer, it is currently too hard to browse what was once the professional and elite DevForum without seeing spam posts by users, likely underage, using alts to sneak in and spam absolute trash all over the forum.

100000000% agree.
I’ll be honest, I joined after the applications were gone, and for the first while I was an idiot, arguing with people for no reasons, not following guidelines (like irrelevant topics), and doing things that don’t make sense.
I am totally guilty of that when I was new, here is an example of “me” when I was newer: Why is the Discussion category so strict? - #7 by colbert2677
…
I think I can say I’m more “experienced” now, but the “common sense” in the DevForum is a lot different then normal common sense, which making this forum open for anyone who can’t just adapt to it, isn’t the best.
I wish manual apps were back, but you’d be accepted or denied in at least several days, that will never be the case though.

[Boggarak]

@LucasTutoriaisSaimo

I mean basic knowledge. A lot of people just don’t understand programming AT ALL, and they’re in the dev forum because they used it enough I guess. People legit asking what are variables? The most basic thing about programming, the simplest, the thing everyone talks about FIRST.

Not everyone on the DevForums knows or wants to know how to code, since there are many different kinds of Roblox Developers on Roblox, some of which has nothing to do with coding. Take a clothing designer or UGC creators, for instance. Do you really think that a clothing designer or UGC creator needs to know what a variable is, even though it has nothing to do with what they develop on the platform (i.e. clothing and accessories).

Even if someone does want to create a Roblox game, they don’t necessarily need to know how to code since division of labor exists: not every 3D modeler needs to know how to code or animate, and not every graphic designer needs to know how to make a button do something (that’s the programmer’s job).

I find it rather disappointing how narrow your view on what counts as a Roblox Developer is, since Clothing Designers and UGC Creators are just as much of a Roblox Developer as Roblox Game Developers, even if they don’t know how to write a single line of code.

I do get your frustrations with people asking basic questions on the DevForums, but there is an easy for that: just ignore them. There are places where people ask help on coding, even if it is rather basic. Everyone learns differently, and you shouldn’t be mad at people using the DevForums as a learning place, even if there are many alternatives (like YouTube) that they could user. There is a reason why #resources:community-tutorials exists, after all:

Lua Scripting Starter Guide

Lua Scripting Starter Guide Author: @DarkSinisterPVP Helper(s): @Supersaiyan122 Author’s Note

Click to open the letter

Picking up programming and learning it for the first time works just like any other hobby–art, music, sports, photography, etc.–although, it may be difficult to know where to start as a beginner, especially if you’ve never had experience with it up until now. When I was younger, it was very difficult for me to get into programming as tutorials for a younger, completely unexp…

Scripting Basics - Beginner guide to lua and Roblox

Hello! I’ve written this guide/tutorial to help people who are new to scripting on Roblox learn some basic concepts of scripting, and hopefully understand it better. This is definitely missing a lot of important information, but I will be updating it more in the future! If you’re brand new you should read The Basics below, but if you know about variables, functions, and data types you should skip to Concepts, where I explain some of the Roblox-specific ideas that’ll allow you to read t…

Those are my two cents, and I hope people stop wanting to get rid of coding noobs out of the DevForums, since those coding noobs might be really good at something else and not every Roblox developer wants to even code in the first place (like Builders and Clothing Designers).

[JustAnotherDevGuy]

I started of coding and soon realised I just couldn’t do it - I was trash without free models , I quit scripting, then I found a tutorial on how to make a cool logo on photoshop and after a while I started to be really good at it and I could create things from scratch without any help. So coding may not be some people’s thing but lol roblox is so much more than coding (I’m not saying its not needed its the base) thats why this platform is amazing because there is a variety of different things you can do for it.

[unix_system]

Yeah that is never going to happen, I’m afraid. This forum is for beginners and learning about development by talking to people. That is disparate from the image some people have in their head of the DevForum having some kind of elite or professional setting (which is what you’re aiming for).

[Ty_Scripts (IAmTrulyGreg)]

Did you read my above reply?

@Ty_IsHomeSchooled

Clearly this is confusing a lot of people, I don’t mean it like that. How does this sound?

“They likely don’t know how to download a plugin…”

Does this sound okay?

[Ty_Scripts (IAmTrulyGreg)]

@blitzahon

Again, a weak argument without examples.

I don’t want to get a strike for call-outs, but I can DM you plenty of examples.

[sjr04 (uep)]

There isn’t only 1 correct way of becoming a developer, just because someone else’s road to becoming a developer is different from yours doesn’t make it not a road, or makes them less of a developer. some people might not use plugins, or they have experience but have never needed any so they don’t even bother to check plugins, at this point I don’t even know what you are arguing for anymore

[Ty_Scripts (IAmTrulyGreg)]

I don’t really use plugins either. It’s an anecdote. An example of the way that they aren’t developers. It’s used to support my claim. Why do so many people take it so very seriously?

What am I arguing for? The 35% of people that agree with me.

[sjr04 (uep)]

I might be misunderstanding, you are saying if you don’t use plugins you aren’t a developer?

And I am not sure why you want manual acceptance, when the automatic process is the reason you are in the forum, it is the same reason I am in the forums as well, as well as many others. Without this process you wouldn’t be making this topic, and without the process I wouldn’t be replying to this topic. Imagine how future users will feel

[Xx_FROSTBITExX (The123)]

It doesn’t matter whether you use plugins or you’re aware of them or you can count to ten. At the end of the day it matters that the forum is a place where you can reach out to help, regardless of skill level. If somebody gives a wrong answer, you correct it - you help them. The forum doesn’t need to measure your IQ or place a number on your knowledge as a requirement. It’s not hurting anybody, so don’t make it.

Knowledge shouldn’t be measured here. Everyone has something to contribute and everyone has something to learn.

[Ty_Scripts (IAmTrulyGreg)]

Are you suggesting that you and I aren’t good enough developers to make it on here? I said it wouldn’t be as difficult. I don’t even care if it stays automatic at this point, but it needs to be made harder.

@Xx_FROSTBITExX

Knowledge shouldn’t be measured here.

Yes it should. We should not have people who have never developed on here because they have absolutely nothing to contribute, and they can learn without being TL1.

[LucasMZ_RBX (LucasMZ)]

I don’t really agreeeeeee with you, I wouldn’t make it manual but certainly I feel like you would have to show some work before getting in. It would still be automated.

Also most people here got in since they made it open. (And i like it) I just don’t like how anyone can join as long as they stayed a bit. I feel like you would have to show development work on Roblox Studio or something similar.

[railworks2]

Ultimately this thread comes down to a difference in what the DevForums is and what it represents to you. There’s a summary at the end.

Do you want the forums to be “professional” and “elite” or open and “not professional”? Your views will drastically change how you’ll respond.

For the avoidance of doubt, I arrived the same day as a regular when upcoming developer was introduced. I’ve operated here on the forums for quite some time and have worked on some internal Roblox program related to here. My overall view on the problem is that there is a mix of factors and groups at hand which causes this issue and a middle approach between both sides should be met to minimise issues.

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Despite what anyone can ever say “manual acceptable” does not scale and must not be done, unless you change what you want to be automated in some form. I know personally that it isn’t. The resources required does not help the actual issue at hand, solve the fundamental issues, nor change what I suspect what people really want.

These views from people here correlate with a similar misunderstanding that plagues both the “OG Roblox” viewpoint and similar lookback to an older time, nostalgia blinds your viewpoint, you remember the good times not the bad times. There was critical issues with manual acceptable from long waiting times to wildly ranging views on what should be accepted. Even at the smaller scale the DevForums was both pre and post introduction of “Upcoming Developer” now member.

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There is much the forums can do to improve and we’ve seen some of this in recent rules changes but more can be done. It should be about introducing people in a way which educates them about some of the basics of how to use the forums to understanding some of the basic knowledge (often people forget that people don’t know that) to understand what to do and where to look for best guidance.

I’ve spoken about ideas for improving the forum’s ethos in previous responses to the forums. Some examples include: 348530#43, 537252#7, 727979#31, 845848#25, and 497180. Ultimately there are things to be done but it’ll take time and correct persuasion to the right people (DET) to make anything really happen. Ironically one of my previous quotes pretty well cover this thread

@railworks2

As an entire thread, you need to:

• Make your points clear and not duplicate others
• Be decent and make it logical
• Know when to shut up and change how you respond
• Be readable and respectful

If the thread requires anything not immediately seen by people on the forums (not DevRel and Roblox engineers [if in Platform Feedback ONLY ], there are a more wider concept people need to consider with their post

• You need to take your idea, be able to give it to DevRel to forward, to whomever it needs to go to; for them to respond however they do, for DevRel to come back to show to you.

If you fail to get across that entire track, you don’t see any messages giving any feedback back, if that’s your fault or not.

If you want change, you need to make it work for the people at the end and get them to agree in the right way. point 3 of being able to shut up still rings true today.

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If there is anything I want people to think of and to summarise how I feel, it’s how hostility can damage beyond repair. I hate asking on StackOverflow from the hostility I got, just my feelings even I was not fully correct. I don’t want that here.

I’d like to ask you to read an essay and some policies from Wikipedia, they offer how they as a community react to a very similar kind of issue that exists. WP:NEWBIES (second in the list) is a good first look.

Wikipedia:Avoiding difficult users - Wikipedia Wikipedia:Please do not bite the newcomers - Wikipedia Wikipedia:Etiquette - Wikipedia Wikipedia:Assume good faith - Wikipedia Wikipedia:Civility - Wikipedia

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EDIT: By developer I mean…

Someone who had/has created UGC on the Roblox platform

That is it. No matter what kind of thing it is, as long as it is a creation that was created/generated by an user, it’s UGC and that creator is a developer. Skill and experience does not matter.

[Ty_Scripts (IAmTrulyGreg)]

So if I understand correctly:

• You don’t want manual acceptance
• We should be polite to newcomers
• Something does need changed about acceptance though

I have no problem with new users at all. My problem is the fact that literally anyone can get on here. If a new user is a developer, I’m fine with it.

[railworks2]

I’m not a fan of hyper simplifying what I said, if you would like to whittle my entire argument into some bullet points, these are

• This entire thread is a debate of two differing viewpoints on what the forums is

• Manual acceptable by definition does not scale and must not be used. Original implementation had issues

• Nostalgia blinds people and people forget to account for that.

• Things have changed, education and introductions are important for the forums

• I have previously suggested and responded to changes (see the examples I linked)

• You and the thread need to persuade the right people (see my quote for the details)

• I dislike asking questions on StackOverflow because of the hostility I had

• I offered examples from Wikipedia on how they as a community has reacted to a similar issue.

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You can try to offer a juxtaposition of concepts to express your viewpoint. I made my overall view clear from my post, if you would like to debate my opinions I highly suggest taking my actual reply and retort based on that. See this highlighted version of that overall view.

@railworks2

For the avoidance of doubt, I arrived the same day as a regular when upcoming developer was introduced. I’ve operated here on the forums for quite some time and have worked on some internal Roblox program related to here. My overall view on the problem is that there is a mix of factors and groups at hand which causes this issue and a middle approach between both sides should be met to minimise issues.

[RobloxTitan4223 (ChukleAbility)]

If your a builder on Roblox then you would be accepted by to building. The example of local was just trying to say that the literal basics of whatever they do should be known not non coders coming in here just to clog the forum up.